#: 20658 S7/Telecommunications 30-Dec-94 19:56:12 Sb: #A few questions Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: all I have a few questions about a few oddities with my connects here and I was a little curious. It seems that at apparently random times, on logon, I get a message "Go RULES for Service Agreement Clarification". I might get it on one logon, then log back on a few minutes later and it is not there. I've gone to RULES and can't find anything that looks like I would need to go. It seems that now, using maybe OSTerm on my CoCo or STerm with my System 5, on logoff, most times, the line that has "Connect time" does not complete. I often get "Connect time =", or sometimes less than that. However, with InfoXpress, I usually get the complete string. I now use error-correcting modems with both systems.. Is the carrier dropping before all the text gets to the computers or what? Another little thing that strikes me as odd.. I have my modems set up to do the whole progress report, "CARRIER..., PROTOCOL..., CONNECT". When logging onto CIS, it rapidly goes to the end of the CONNECT string, but hesitates before putting the computer CONNECT rate value up. This hesitation is not there on any other system. This is on the CoCo, and with "ix", seems like the OSK system does the same (different modem). I had thought it was possibly a flow control thing, but from the looks of things, there is no difference in the amount of text in the CIS logon sequence at this point than any other, so I'm kinda curious. If I don't get the answers to these pressing questions, I'll try to survive somehow (G).. Naw.. it's just an "inquiring minds want to know" sort of thing. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 *** ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ There are 2 Replies. #: 20661 S7/Telecommunications 31-Dec-94 12:51:14 Sb: #20658-#A few questions Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: David Breeding 72330,2051 (X) > It seems that at apparently random times, on logon, I get a message "Go > RULES for Service Agreement Clarification". I might get it on one logon, > then log back on a few minutes later and it is not there. I've gone to > RULES and can't find anything that looks like I would need to go. It's nothing to worry about, David. I think that banner is tied to a flag that gets flipped periodically by the folks in Columbus anytime they make a significant change to the service agreement. It may even be tied to the What's New pages that pop up each Thursday. > It seems that now, using maybe OSTerm on my CoCo or STerm with my System > 5, on logoff, most times, the line that has "Connect time" does not > complete. I often get "Connect time =", or sometimes less than that. > However, with InfoXpress, I usually get the complete string. I now use > error-correcting modems with both systems.. Is the carrier dropping before > all the text gets to the computers or what? Doubtful. I see that from time to time as well. I just chalked it up to a buffer not getting fully processed. > Another little thing that strikes me as odd.. I have my modems set up to > do the whole progress report, "CARRIER..., PROTOCOL..., CONNECT". When > logging onto CIS, it rapidly goes to the end of the CONNECT string, but Gee .. so you really have this much free time?? :-) I've got a few projects that have been hanging around for a while! Seriously ... I've not a clue. Does this happen _everytime_ you log in? *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 20662 S7/Telecommunications 31-Dec-94 15:33:19 Sb: #20661-A few questions Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) > > It seems that at apparently random times, on logon, I get a message > "Go > RULES for Service Agreement Clarification". > It's nothing to worry about, David. I think that banner is tied to a flag > that gets flipped periodically by the folks in Columbus anytime they make a > significant change to the service agreement. I thought it might be something like this. I just wondered if I needed to check things out, but as I said, I've gone in to look and found nothing. RE: connect time not showing all the time > Doubtful. I see that from time to time as well. I just chalked it up to a > buffer not getting fully processed. Again, this is what seems more apparent to me. But I wondered why one comm package would complete the string and others wouldn't. Again, it could be in the speed the comm programs process the data, and it could be that the carrier being dropped might cause anything in the buffer to be lost. > > Another little thing that strikes me as odd.. I have my modems set up > to > do the whole progress report, "CARRIER..., PROTOCOL..., CONNECT". > When > logging onto CIS, it rapidly goes to the end of the CONNECT string, > but > Gee .. so you really have this much free time?? :-) I've got a few > projects that have been hanging around for a while! Seriously ... I've not > a clue. Does this happen _everytime_ you log in? Yeah, every time.. There's a pause right after CONNECT, maybe 2 seconds, then 4800 comes up (that's the speed I have my coco set to connect). But with Delphi and everywhere else, it's all one swoop, and I would suspect that THIS comes from the modem. Again, it could be a halt from the coco, but if I remember, it's the same with the OSK computer, can't remember. Well, none of this stuff is really a problem, but I just get curious about stuff like this... Hope you are having a great holiday. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 *** ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ #: 20666 S7/Telecommunications 01-Jan-95 17:54:08 Sb: #20658-#A few questions Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: David Breeding 72330,2051 (X) > I often get "Connect time =", or sometimes less than that. When I dial the 2400 baud access number I always have the "connect time" message chopped off; but on the 9600 baud line it always works. And since I am using the same computer, modem and software I have to figure that it is a CIS problem. Of course, you could always "ask customer service" and then, after they ask you which version of CIM you are using, you still would not know the answer. It'll probably just remain a mystery . There is 1 Reply. #: 20667 S7/Telecommunications 01-Jan-95 19:29:28 Sb: #20666-A few questions Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) > When I dial the 2400 baud access number I always have the "connect time" > message chopped off; but on the 9600 baud line it always works. And since > I am using the same computer, modem and software I have to figure that it > is a CIS problem. Well, it doesn't matter that much, but I was just curious. I don't think it is ever chopped off on my coco using 2400 modem, coco set @ 4800. But with OSTerm, it usually is. > Of course, you could always "ask customer service" and > then, after they ask you which version of CIM you are using, you still > would not know the answer. It'll probably just remain a mystery . Oh, you think they might be thrown for a loop when I tell them I'm using OSTerm, or STerm.. Think they might not be really up-to-date on those programs? Actually, What Steve said was something I thought maybe.. that the rest of the string might be still in the Modem buffer and (my thought), when CD dropped, this was lost. Anyway, if that's the biggest online problem I ever have, I think I will survive ;-) -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 *** ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ Press !> #: 20680 S7/Telecommunications 06-Jan-95 16:31:31 Sb: Programmer Wanted Fm: Fred Skrotzki 73647,2345 To: all The Company I work for is looking for a Programmer who might be interested in developing a small peice of software tath would allow us to connect a Specialy developed device to a CDI OS-9 platform via RS232. You need to have knowladge of Rs232, CDI and OptImages Media Mogul plugin experance. Please send E-Mail to 73647,2345. #: 20725 S7/Telecommunications 26-Jan-95 21:51:11 Sb: MTSMON Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 To: Curtis Boyle, 71310,1271 Dear Curtis: I downloaded your MTSMON program and I have a few questions. In the documentation that you wrote, you mentioned that > we created a pseudo-shell program for everyone else but the sysop to use on the system which chains to every other program, and those programs chain back to the pseudo-shell. Thus, every user has only one process running at any given time each (since LOGIN chains to pseudo shell itself), plus the MTSMON program running in the background. This makes the system quite system-RAM friendly, although it means a LOT ofcustomized programs. Is this "psuedo-shell" available for purchase. We have a similar situation here at St. Josephs'. I will be obtaining a Comm4 in about two weeks and it will give us the means to "network" our COCO's together. I would appreciate any information you might be able to give me. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: With all best wishes, :::::: 2 Kings 2:23-24 ::: :: Brother Jeremy, CSJW ::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: OS9 Users Group Treasurer :: revwcp@delphi.com :: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: CIS - 76477,142 ::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: #: 20735 S7/Telecommunications 05-Feb-95 14:02:55 Sb: #20725-#MTSMON Fm: Curtis boyle 71310,1271 To: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 (X) Hi! Long time no see (since Chicago last year... I should be making it ther e this year too). The "pseudo-shell" was just a BASIC09 program with a very limited set of commands, so I don't know if you want to bother with it or just write your own. If you do want it, just leave me a message and I will try to upload it here for you, though I will edit out a lot of the stuff we used here at work. Either that, or I can just bring it to Chicago (if you are attending this year) and give it to you there, and help answer any questions that you may have about it there. I should mention that I actually have gotten a little bit of crunching done on BASIC09 now for the next Nitro release, and I will be releasing an Ipatch file for stock OS-9 as well. Not much speedup, and only in certain areas, but the code is a little smaller. Haven't gotten to RUNB yet, though. There is 1 Reply. #: 20738 S7/Telecommunications 06-Feb-95 01:06:01 Sb: #20735-MTSMON Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 To: Curtis boyle 71310,1271 Dear Curtis: I'd like to see that program, as it will give me a good starting point. If you can, please send me a copy of it. I look forward to seeing you in Chicago. With all best wishes, Brother Jeremy, CSJW #: 21079 S7/Telecommunications 29-Jul-95 17:42:52 Sb: rz/sz considerations Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I saw your query on comp.os.os9 about sometimes losing data on huge text files. I wonder what telecom program you are using. Offhandedly, I'd guess you would be using the OSTerm offshoot, but if you are using STerm, there may be one other possibility. I'm not sure how any of the other telecom packages besides STerm handle this, though. In STerm, when you are using disk capture, when it writes to disk, it sends XOFF. But your modem, if set for Hardware flow control, does not recognize XOFF, I suppose. My guess s to what happens is that XOFF is passed through to the other system, and it, perhaps, stops, but, as you suggested, the modem has lots of stuff still in its buffer if you have extensive compression, so it just keeps on pumping. Of course, if your serial driver does automatic RTS/CTS flow control, this should not be a problem. However, my system, a Delmar, did not offer this flow control, and as it came out, had an extremely small buffer. I disassembled and rewrote my driver. Actually, when I upped my buffer to 2 K, it seemed to straighten itself out (I think you said you had a 4 K buffer?). I did add a rough auto RTS/CTS implementation, and now, I have not had any trouble. Let's see, though, actually, I cannot remember downloading any really hugh text, and the CIS connection I use does not support data compression (and often not even 14.4 but 9600 {:-[ ) so I might run into the same thing you are mentioning, but I'm hoping not. I guess I took too long to say what I was trying to say, but it could be that your driver does not offer automatic RTS/CTS flow control, and coupled with the possibility that your comm program might not, either, (especially if you are using STERM), you may be having a problem of mismatched flow control. It does seem that you are somewhat on the right track of the problem. I remember in the docs for rz/sz, the testers found that if the coco had a too large a buffer in the driver, that often the sender would get so far ahead of the coco that it could never figure out what block it needed to resend and would error out, so, as I said, you are pretty much on track as to the nature of the problem.. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** Press !> #: 21274 S7/Telecommunications 27-Nov-95 18:04:49 Sb: #Internet with OS-9 Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: all Hey, all.. Can we get a decent connection through Internet Service Providers using OS-9? In particular OSK? I must admit that I am pretty much in the dark about this aspect of telecomm. I have downloaded KAQ9 and have UUCPbb, but have not as yet studied the docs, but it is my understanding that you _can_ get an account set up with providers? Or at least some? Our local Telephone Co. is in the process of setting up an Internet Service. They will be providing their own software, and I really have not gotten any definitive answers to the question. (Actually, the person who they said could answer my questions best is off on maternity leave). I would not be particularly interested in the graphical services of the Web anyway. My main interest would be in Telnetting to my CIS and Delphi accounts, FTP, and probably a few newsgroups, and of course E-Mail. I know this is a rather vague and general question. If there is a text file available that might answer my questions, I'd appreciate if of someone would point me to it. I think I'll post this on both CIS and Delphi to get as broad a possibility of answers as possible. In the meantime, I'll do some homework with the docs I have.. they may answer my questions anyway.. Thanks all. There are 2 Replies. #: 21275 S7/Telecommunications 28-Nov-95 12:44:42 Sb: #21274-#Internet with OS-9 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: David Breeding 72330,2051 (X) Hi David. I use telnet all the time to access CI$. I have an account with a local service provider...well, a bit more complicated than that. I have an account with a local company who lease a line from here (Creston, BC) to a large UNIX system in Kelowna, BC (about 150 miles). I dial up a local number and that connects me to the UNIX system where I have a shell account. I then type a command: telnet compuserve.com and it creates a link to CIS. Most of the time it works fine....but I have heard of other folks getting very slow response. Mind you, I've had slow response from CIS from time to time dialing up direct too. The only problem I had was uploading binary files. But I solved that...I use the "-E" option with telnet if I am going to be uploading. This disables the escape character...which means that I have to either disconnect or hope that CIS recognises the "bye" command. Usually not a problem . This method has saved me a lot of $$ in long distance charges....before I got the internet account I had to dial long distance to Vancouver to access a CIS node. Now I have to pay my local internet guy...but for $20/month I get 1 hour per day. This is fairly pricy compared to what other folks pay, espeically in the big cities. But, considering that the bulk of the charges are paying for the leased line between here and Kelowna it seems to be okay. Besides, with only one provider in the area I really have no choice. Hope this helps. There is 1 Reply. #: 21277 S7/Telecommunications 28-Nov-95 21:26:12 Sb: #21275-#Internet with OS-9 Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Thanks for the reply, Bob. I am trying to learn all I can with this. > I use telnet all the time to access CI$. I have an account with a local > service provider... Yes, I recall reading one of your messages about this. it sounds kind of neat. If I understand a "shell account" is something like logging onto an OS-9 system with "login"?? Do I have this concept close? With this type of connection, do you just use something like Sterm on your system? Or is a specialized program still required? (sorry for the dumb questions)... I'm not sure what type of accounts we will have. What we are getting is our local phone company is starting up an Internet service. I am not sure what they will provide. They will provide software - Wolongong's "Emissary" Internet software.. I am not familiar with this. They do mention activation without using their software, so it might be possible that they will offer options. > I then type a command: > > telnet compuserve.com This is one feature that I would look forward to, since I, too, am without local CIS access. They do mention Telnet capability. > and it creates a link to CIS. Most of the time it works fine....but I > have heard of other folks getting very slow response. Mind you, I've had > slow response from CIS from time to time dialing up direct too. I do, too, on occasion, but most of the time, it is satisfactory with my direct dial. > The only problem I had was uploading binary files. But I solved that...I > use the "-E" option with telnet if I am going to be uploading. This > disables the escape character...which means that I have to either > disconnect or hope that CIS recognises the "bye" command. Usually not a > problem . "bye" is the command I use all the time when I log on manually, but InfoXpress uses a different method. Hmm... I might not be able to use it for a connect like this... I'll have to look into this.. > This method has saved me a lot of $$ in long distance charges.... > Now I have to pay my local internet guy...but for > $20/month I get 1 hour per day. This is fairly pricy compared to what > other folks pay, espeically in the big cities. Well, we won't be getting a bargain with our system, either. Their proposed rates will be $9.95 for 5 hr, $19.95 for 13 hr, and $29.95 for 25 hr. For each plan, additional hours are $2.00, $1.50, and $1 respectively. I'm not doing _TOO_ badly with my long distance rates. On weekends, I can call for 8 cents a minute. Weeknights are a little higher and I just stay clear of weekdays > Besides, with only one provider in the area I > really have no choice. I know what you mean.. > Hope this helps. Yes, it is giving me some valuable insight. Thanks again for answering some questions that may well be very apparent, but are foggy for me.. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** There is 1 Reply. #: 21280 S7/Telecommunications 29-Nov-95 20:35:51 Sb: #21277-#Internet with OS-9 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: David Breeding 72330,2051 (X) > If I understand a "shell account" is something like logging onto an OS-9 > system with "login"?? Do I have this concept close? Exactly correct. > With this type of connection, do you just use something like Sterm on your > system? Or is a specialized program still required? Right again. Matter of fact, sterm (my own, customized version) is my terminal prog. of choice. > (sorry for the dumb questions)... The only dumb questions are the ones not asked. > "bye" is the command I use all the time when I log on manually, but > InfoXpress uses a different method. Hmm... I might not be able to use it for > a connect like this... I'll have to look into this.. I seem to recall a thread on using InfoXpress via a telnet link. John? > Well, we won't be getting a bargain with our system, either. Their proposed > rates will be $9.95 for 5 hr, $19.95 for 13 hr, and $29.95 for 25 hr. For > each plan, additional hours are $2.00, $1.50, and $1 respectively. Sounds pricy to me. Anyone else know about rates for this kind of stuff? There is 1 Reply. #: 21282 S7/Telecommunications 30-Nov-95 00:04:01 Sb: #21280-Internet with OS-9 Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 > Right again. Matter of fact, sterm (my own, customized version) is my > terminal prog. of choice. I guess we _all_ have our own customized versions of Sterm. It seems to be a really great workhorse. > > (sorry for the dumb questions)... > > The only dumb questions are the ones not asked. Well, I guess you've found that I'm full of "smart" questions, then The only thing is that these are probably questions that have been asked countless times, and here I am asking them again.. > > "bye" is the command I use all the time when I log on manually, but > > InfoXpress uses a different method. Hmm... I might not be able to use it > for > a connect like this... I'll have to look into this.. > > I seem to recall a thread on using InfoXpress via a telnet link. John? Yes, I saved a message from Bill about using scripts to log in from a telnet account. I have it saved somewhere, just need to find it. > > Well, we won't be getting a bargain with our system, either. Their > proposed > rates will be $9.95 for 5 hr, $19.95 for 13 hr, and $29.95 for > 25 hr. For > each plan, additional hours are $2.00, $1.50, and $1 > respectively. > Sounds pricy to me. Anyone else know about rates for this kind of stuff? Yes, it's kind of steep, but as you said about your account, when it's the only playhouse in town.... :-) I hear rumors that other providers may be moving into our territory. If so, then perhaps the price will become more pleasant.. But we may have to live with this for starters. It seems that you guys are substantiating what I suspected was the case. As of now, I am hoping that our provider will support a shell account. I think this would be exactly what I need. I have not had a chance to talk to anyone who knows anything about the service they will be providing. I suspect that the phone co. will not be the provider, but just provide a link to a host system in another city. If this be the case, then I may stand a bette chance of getting something I will be able to use. If not, probably my only other chance for getting local service will be to get a "real" computer.... >:( Thanks Bob, Steve, and Jim.. I really appreciate the help. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** #: 21276 S7/Telecommunications 28-Nov-95 17:31:18 Sb: #21274-#Internet with OS-9 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: David Breeding 72330,2051 (X) > Can we get a decent connection through Internet Service Providers using > OS-9? In particular OSK? I must admit that I am pretty much in the dark > about this aspect of telecomm. > > I have downloaded KAQ9 and have UUCPbb, but have not as yet studied the > docs, but it is my understanding that you _can_ get an account set up > with providers? Or at least some? > Dave, Last time I looked KAQ9 would support a serial SLIP connection to an Internet Services provider, but all you could expect is ftp. Unless something's recently changed, the "telnet" that's included in the package is really nothing more than a "chat" feature. If you find out something different let us know. *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 21278 S7/Telecommunications 28-Nov-95 21:26:21 Sb: #21276-Internet with OS-9 Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Thanks, Steve, for your response, > Last time I looked KAQ9 would support a serial SLIP connection to an > Internet Services provider, but all you could expect is ftp. Unless > something's recently changed, the "telnet" that's included in the package > is really nothing more than a "chat" feature. Well, the lack of "telnet" would be a disadvantage. Bob Van Der Poel sent me some helpful information on how he was doing his connects. I'm keeping my fingers crossed hoping that we can get a shell account here. It looks like this would be my best option. For my current usage, I don't have much need for anything besides my OS-9 system, except for the dreamed-of Internet access. But I don't see a big need on my part for the graphical aspects of the browsers, especially until we can get an unlimited time plan here. > If you find out something different let us know. Well, I'm out here in the boonies, so to speak, but I will be on the lookout for good alternatives. We had a discussion somewhere a while back, I think it might have been on Delphi, but something was said about writing a browser for OSK. Someone said that something about it would be hard to get the code from Netscape. However, this would not be required, would it? The protocols are not Netscape-specific, are they? At the bottom rung, don't they utilize either TCP/IP or SLIP (this _is_ a protocol, isn't it) ? Wouldn't it just be a matter of interpreting the graphics and going from there? It would not be a small task, but not impossible, would it? -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** #: 21279 S7/Telecommunications 29-Nov-95 20:34:14 Sb: #reply Fm: Jim Vestal 103037,2655 To: all type RE: reply to message number 21278 Hi All. I think David Breeding (s) had a question about ka9q and internet accounts. I think I have some answers that might help. By the way, how to tell cis that I want to reply to a singer single message? I have to compose a new message. I curently just capture all the new messages and read them from the capture buffer. Anyway. You phone company would probably want to sell you a PPP connection to the internet, this is the most common connection for the PC folks. The CoCo and I believe OSk can't use such an account directly. But if they can sell you a SLIP account which is the older standard of direct dial-up accounts, that would work with KA9Q. The CoCo version of KA9Q is way to slow and limited to even be useful, but the osk version might justd work fine. Most internet providers that use a Unix host can sell you a shell account. This is where you login to the thier shell and use it like a bbs. Once you have an account you can always telnet out to compuserve or elsewhere. KA9Q does support telnet out, not telnet in. Good luck, you will need it! I use my Amiga for all my telecom now, .. Jim There is 1 Reply. #: 21281 S7/Telecommunications 30-Nov-95 00:03:51 Sb: #21279-reply Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: Jim Vestal 103037,2655 Thanks, Jim, for your input. I have saved it for future reference. > type RE: reply to message number 21278 > > Hi All. I think David Breeding (s) had a question about ka9q and > internet accounts. I think I have some answers that might help. By the > way, how to tell cis that I want to reply to a singer single message? Can't you enter the command (for the above example) "rep 21278"? That is, if you're doing it online. > You phone company would probably want to sell you a PPP connection to the > internet, this is the most common connection for the PC folks. > > The CoCo and I believe OSk can't use such an account directly. But if > they can sell you a SLIP account which is the older standard of direct > dial-up accounts, that would work with KA9Q. The CoCo version of KA9Q is > way to slow and limited to even be useful, but the osk version might justd > work fine. My system is a 25-MHz 68020. I think I would have enough speed to handle my needs. > Most internet providers that use a Unix host can sell you a shell account. > This is where you login to the thier shell and use it like a bbs. This is what I am hoping they will provide. I believe this will give me all the features I will need. > Once you have an account you can always telnet out to compuserve or > elsewhere. KA9Q does support telnet out, not telnet in. I was hoping for this capability, but with the rates they will be giving, I'm not sure if this would provide me with any savings or not. > Good luck, you will need it! I use my Amiga for all my telecom now, Yes, it does seem like I may have to do some homework to get it going. From the responses here, I am beginning to get more insight into it. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** Press !> #: 21283 S7/Telecommunications 02-Dec-95 20:50:34 Sb: #21278-#Internet with OS-9 Fm: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 To: David Breeding 72330,2051 (X) Time to jump in. A shell account allows you to have text and file transfer interface via your local service provider. Access to FTP, Newsgroups, Mail, etc. are done by using programs that run ON YOUR SERVICE PROVIDER'S COMPUTER; you just have what amounts to a medium dumb terminal. The programs are probably called FTP (for FTP), TIN (for Internet News), and ELM (electronic mail) or PINE for email. But remember, your computer just acts as a terminal, and the only special protocol that might be required is something like VT100 emulation. In fact, providers SHOULD be able to provide for a number of different terminal types, but mine has suppressed the terminal type on login question and assumes ANSI, which lets my CoCo out. If you use a PPP connection, your service provider acts as a gateway, and most of the action takes place on your local computer. This means that you have to have some fairly sophisticated software to know about the various protocols, of which there are really at least two different levels. The lower level interface uses a protocol called TCP/IP, which specifies packet frame details as well as how the packet are handled over the network. At a higher level are the protocols used by FTP, email (POP3 and SMTP), and, of course, The World Wide Web (HTML). I have no idea why anyone would want to get the code from Netscape. Netscape is a multi-function browser which handles HTML, FTP, Usenet (news) and, to a limited extent, SMTP. Each of these is a clearly defined high level protocol and anyone with the capability should be able to write programs to use them. HTML, for example, is a text markup language. You use an editor to create HTML code (which is text with a bunch of markers, in concept much like using Ved to produce a Vprint file) and a viewer to look at it. The viewer is basically a text formatter, with output to the screen. It provides for various colors for text and backgrounds, graphics (which must be GIF or JPEG), centering, different font sizes, bullets, numbered lists, emphasis of various sorts, blinking text, tables and a number of other features. These are all defined in the HTML standards; version 3.0 is current, though most browsers EXCEPT for Netscape only handle 2.0. Not to worry, one of the requirements of HTML browsers is that they will gracefully ignore markers they don't understand, so if you try to read HTML 3.0 on an older browser, all that will happen is that some of the formatting won't look right. You can get the standards for HTML on the Web; if anyone needs it I can find the URL (Uniform Resource Locator, i.e. address). There would be no point in trying to write a browser for the CoCo; it simply doesn't have the power nor the graphics capabilities. OSK is a different story, and there should be no problem doing this, but the competition is indeed Netscape, and since you can get an out of date 386 PC to run it for a couple of hundred bucks it hardly seems worthwhile to write one for OSK. By the way, to those who think they would have no use for the graphics capabilities of the Web, take a lesson from me. I too was amongst the group who felt that way, until I got the chance to start playing on the Web. It is very addicitive BECAUSE of the neat formatting and excellent graphics. Once you've tried it there is no going back to text. Good thing my service provider gives me unlimited time for $30/month. Ian There is 1 Reply. #: 21285 S7/Telecommunications 03-Dec-95 13:26:25 Sb: #21283-#Internet with OS-9 Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X) > Time to jump in. And thanks for doing so, Ian. You have supplied some good insightful info on this matter. RE: Shell acct. > In fact, providers SHOULD be able to > provide for a number of different terminal types, but mine has suppressed > the terminal type on login question and assumes ANSI, which lets my CoCo > out. I think I might get by with this. Unless there are quite a few differences between systems, I log onto a local PC BBS which provides ANSI support, and using the VT100 emulations of G-Windows, does a pretty good job of screen display. A few stray, most often just ignored codes, but quite satisfactory. > I have no idea why anyone would want to get the code from Netscape. > Netscape is a multi-function browser which handles HTML, FTP, Usenet > (news) and, to a limited extent, SMTP. Each of these is a clearly defined > high level protocol and anyone with the capability should be able to write > programs to use them. Right. I can't remember who suggested that, but I doubt that would be necessary, or productive. Unless they were thinking of taking a shortcut in code writing but it would probably take some fairly extensive editing anyway... > There would be no point in trying to write a browser for the CoCo; it > simply doesn't have the power nor the graphics capabilities. Yes, I think this would be pretty well agreed upon. > OSK is a > different story, and there should be no problem doing this, but the > competition is indeed Netscape, and since you can get an out of date 386 > PC to run it for a couple of hundred bucks it hardly seems worthwhile to > write one for OSK. Yes. This would be the easiest and quickest way out. This is no doubt the route most have taken. However, if it were not a too big project to write a browser, it would add a neat feature to our system. The only problem is that surely there is some big obstacle to it or someone would surely have already done it. > By the way, to those who think they would have no use for the graphics > capabilities of the Web, take a lesson from me. I too was amongst the > group who felt that way, until I got the chance to start playing on the > Web. It is very addicitive BECAUSE of the neat formatting and excellent > graphics. Once you've tried it there is no going back to text. Good thing > my service provider gives me unlimited time for $30/month. You are probably quite right. Perhaps if I got involved, I would get hooked on it. However, if you have been following my messages, the proposed service that I may be getting will be too expensive to allow a very heavy addiction. :-) Thanks again for all the fine observations. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** There is 1 Reply. #: 21288 S7/Telecommunications 06-Dec-95 00:19:28 Sb: #21285-#Internet with OS-9 Fm: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 To: David Breeding 72330,2051 (X) Just a few more notes about Web stuff. > The only problem is that surely there is some big obstacle to it or > someone would surely have already done it. I can't see any big obstacle, other than the fact that HTML is fairly complicated, particularly if you allow in-line GIF and JPEG graphics, both of which require integrated viewers that respect the HTML positioning commands. But the basis shouldn't be any harder than writing any other text formatter, such as Vprint. (Maybe I should start bugging Bob to write a browser; he is struggling along with a shell account now. When I started pushing him for a fancy formatter he wrote Vprint, maybe it would work twice !) HTML formats text on the basis of commands such as
for line break,

for paragraph marker,

and
to define centered blocks, and so on. It provides for half a dozen different headers, bullets, numbered lists, tables, graphics and a bunch of other things. As I said, the full definition is available on the Web (I didn't get the chance to look up where I got it) so it should be a straight forward, if somewhat tedious, job to write a formatter. Incidentally, one of the nice features of HTML is that all formatting is usually specified in general terms, i.e. you specify header type 3 rather than Times Roman 14 point bold, etc. This lets the recipient's browser decide what the header will actually look like, and makes the source code completely machine independent. I am just getting heavily into writing HTML source in conjunction with my job, and I must say it is great fun. And don't complain about your proposed server's high prices disallowing a heavy addiction; this may well be a blessing in disguise. Gosh, that reminds me, one of these days I will have to wash the dishes! Haven't had time for quite a while! Ian There is 1 Reply. #: 21295 S7/Telecommunications 07-Dec-95 22:03:30 Sb: #21288-Internet with OS-9 Fm: David Breeding 72330,2051 To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 > Just a few more notes about Web stuff. And your observations are quite welcome. > I can't see any big obstacle, other than the fact that HTML is fairly > complicated, particularly if you allow in-line GIF and JPEG graphics, both > of which require integrated viewers that respect the HTML positioning > commands. The (apparent to me) need to include all these protocols is one thing that precludes my tackling it. I must admit that my familiarity with really what all _is_ involved with a browser is quite scanty. Another little gotcha, I guess, would be the fact that the GIF protocol now requires licensing, too, doesn't it? It surprises me that no one has undertaken this project, though, given all the magnificent applications that our great people _have_ made available. It seems that that someone would have begun this. The only explanation I can come up with is that with our diversified systems, and an app of this kind would be GUI-dependent, that no one sees a market for it. > But the basis shouldn't be any harder than writing any other text > formatter, such as Vprint. (Maybe I should start bugging Bob to write a > browser; he is struggling along with a shell account now. Yes, he has told us about this. As you no doubt have seen, this is the avenue I am looking at at this moment. > When I started > pushing him for a fancy formatter he wrote Vprint, maybe it would work > twice !) Bob would be a good prospect alright. I have a vague idea of how the HTML protocol works. I've seen examples in NET-related magazines, but of course I don't have detailed specifics. > As > I said, the full definition is available on the Web (I didn't get the > chance to look up where I got it) so it should be a straight forward, if > somewhat tedious, job to write a formatter. Yes, it would be somewhat tedious. It would no doubt be a formidable project. However, quite a showpiece if it were made quite workable. > Incidentally, one of the nice features of HTML is that all formatting is > usually specified in general terms, i.e. you specify header type 3 rather > than Times Roman 14 point bold, etc. This lets the recipient's browser > decide what the header will actually look like, and makes the source code > completely machine independent. > > I am just getting heavily into writing HTML source in conjunction with my > job, and I must say it is great fun. Yes, I believe it _would_ be quite intriguing. I had entertained the notion about trying to write a browser, but so far, the task has looked too daunting to begin. > And don't complain about your proposed server's high prices disallowing a > heavy addiction; this may well be a blessing in disguise. Gosh, that > reminds me, one of these days I will have to wash the dishes! Haven't had > time for quite a while! Well, heh-heh.. I have a bad habit of letting the dishes go even _without_ a browser I don't know what would happen to me if I were to get involved with browsing.. To be honest, and seriously, this is one of my concerns about getting involved with browsin' -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 ***