#: 17269 S15/Hot Topics 19-Dec-92 23:27:20 Sb: #17205-New Video for KiX\30 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Chris Perrault 75346,165 (X) I'm sure that the KiX\30 would handle X-Windows but I have no plans to do anything in that regard. We are just about done with the 6809 stuff. Will only be selling what we currently have, ie DynaStar etc. We won't put that info in a catalog because of such small interest. We are concentrating on OSK now and mostly the KiX\30 as we have not sold one TC70 since the KiX\30 was introduced. BTW as you see I rarely get into the forum here so if you want to get hold of me I would suggest email, which I check almost daily. Frank #: 17359 S15/Hot Topics 12-Jan-93 05:02:39 Sb: CD-I in Trouble Fm: Eric Crichlow 71051,3516 To: All Just back from a Vegas Consumer Electronics Show that was very interesting (and somewhat disturbing.) Conspicuous by their absence was Philips, with CD-I. Surprising, at least to me, since they've actually started promoting it in tv ads yet they don't show up to the first, and probably the biggest trade show of the year. This bodes especially badly since one of the biggest displays at the show was Panasonic, which has joined forces with a company whose name escapes me, to produce a product called, if memory serves me correctly, 3D-O. Basically 3D-O is, well ... CD-I. It basically has everything that CD-I does, except that it uses a 32 bit RISC processor made by a company that I've never heard of, and it doesn't (at least I don't think) use our favorite Op Sys. Its got expansion ports on it for *possible* future expansion into a computer. And Panasonic seems to be pretty strong in support of it as they have already contracted with over 60 software companies to produce CD titles for it. Probably the most discouraging thing about the show was seeing the incredible detail, work, and quality that are apparent in the upcoming crop of computer and CD games and software products. Disturbing because it became apparent to me that the single, or even dou or trio of programmers can't hope to produce anything competive with, or even remotely interesting in comparison with the stuff being brought out by the big companies with teams of programmers. Make no doubt about it, the stuff coming out on CD in the next year is unbelieveable. ..Eric... P.S. As an aside, at least somebody out there is using CD-I. I just today discovered that the Ramada Reservation Center (where I work) is using a Philips CD-I player to familiarize its agents with the hotels they're selling. Go Ramada! #: 17414 S15/Hot Topics 21-Jan-93 05:04:17 Sb: New Product Announcement Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: All Announcing a new product for all MM/1 owners. The Dirt Cheap Computer Stuff Company, DccS, (me), is pleased to offer a Floptical Disk Drive. These drives use 3.5 inch optical disks to read and write up to 21 Megabytes of data on one disk, while still being able to read and write standard 1.44 Meg and 720K floppies. The drives are mounted as a normal 3.5 inch floppy disk drive and connected using your SCSI cable. A special device driver and descriptor (/f0) allows you to access all disk types (21 Meg, 1.44 Meg, 720k) through the same descriptor. The drive automatically detects the different types. All disk types are formatted using special descriptors that can be loaded when needed or included in your boot file. Read/write speeds for the 21 Meg disks are much faster than standard floppy disks. Measured transfer rates for reading are 124 Kbytes a second and 74 Kbytes a second for writing. This compares to 15 Kbytes reading and 1.8 Kbytes writing for a 1.44 meg floppy on the MM/1. Seek times for the 21 Meg drives were measured at 137ms average (at the application). The price for a complete system including the drive, software drivers and descriptors and documentation for installing and using the drive is $350.00. This drive and the software drivers are offered exclusively by DccS. For more information, or to place and order contact DccS either by e-mail to me, or calling or writing the following: Mark Griffith DccS 1368 Old Hwy 50 East Union, MO 63084 (314) 583-1168 (leave a message, I'll call back) /*----------- /\/\ark -----------*/ #: 17438 S15/Hot Topics 26-Jan-93 01:01:07 Sb: #17414-#New Product Announcement Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hi Mark... Sounds neat! I'm very interested, but I'm a bit broke this month and probably next (holidays, car insurance, etc.). Are these going to be available a couple months from now? I want one! Sounds like a great solution to the hard drive backup quandry - to do it on floppies takes FOREVER! BTW - How much do floptical diskettes cost (roughly)? TTUL - Glen Hathaway - COMPER - 71446,166 There is 1 Reply. #: 17445 S15/Hot Topics 27-Jan-93 02:53:39 Sb: #17438-#New Product Announcement Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, > Hi Mark... Sounds neat! I'm very interested, but I'm a bit broke this month > and probably next (holidays, car insurance, etc.). Are these going to be > available a couple months from now? I want one! Sounds like a great solution > to the hard drive backup quandry - to do it on floppies takes FOREVER! > BTW - How much do floptical diskettes cost (roughly)? SUre, they'll be available for as long as I can find them. The disks cost about $25. /*----------- /\/\ark -----------*/ There are 2 Replies. #: 17447 S15/Hot Topics 27-Jan-93 06:22:54 Sb: #17445-#New Product Announcement Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, I had thought that the floptical might be better than a tape drive, but at $25 a disk, that works out to a lot of money for backing up a big hard drive. I'm planning on getting a bigger HD for my MM/1, currently I have only 48M, and its just not enough. I get tired of feeding floppies now, when backing up the 48M, I can't imagine what it will be like when I get a 200M HD. So I also plan on getting a tape drive (and maybe a floptical :-) for backup at the same time I get the new drive. I'm also planning on moving the 48M over to the CoCo, have you heard anything about the Ken-Ton SCSI interface for the CoCo? -Bill- There is 1 Reply. #: 17451 S15/Hot Topics 29-Jan-93 02:54:50 Sb: #17447-New Product Announcement Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, > I'm also planning on moving the 48M over to the CoCo, have you heard > anything about the Ken-Ton SCSI interface for the CoCo? No, sorry. I never kept up on the SCSI device systems for the CoCo. I know that several people have it and like it. /*----------- /\/\ark -----------*/ #: 17449 S15/Hot Topics 27-Jan-93 22:32:24 Sb: #17445-New Product Announcement Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hi Mark... I was thinking - will you sell the drivers separately? I'm in Vancouver, Canada. I've found that I can buy hardware locally as cheap or cheaper than buying from the US and paying exchange on the money, duty, taxes, etc. I've seen at least one company here in town advertising the drives - they want too much, but if they have it, other companies will too, and for better prices. #: 17530 S15/Hot Topics 15-Feb-93 10:21:00 Sb: #17414-#New Product Announcement Fm: Walter J Schilling 70312,3406 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark: I hate to be so openly dumb, but what is OS/9? I noticed you are from Missouri, so I feel a little safer exposing my lack of being "in-the-know"; I'm a Missouri transplant in California. Also, I keep noticing that there seems to be more going on in Missouri than I expected. Thanks, Walt There is 1 Reply. #: 17539 S15/Hot Topics 17-Feb-93 05:31:54 Sb: #17530-#New Product Announcement Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Walter J Schilling 70312,3406 Walt, > > I hate to be so openly dumb, but what is OS/9? > I noticed you are from Missouri, so I feel a little > safer exposing my lack of being "in-the-know"; I'm > a Missouri transplant in California. Also, I keep noticing > that there seems to be more going on in Missouri than I > expected. Well, you are asking me this question in the OS-9 forum you know. OS-9 is a multi-tasking, multi-user operating system for the Motorola CPUs (6809, 68000 series, etc.) that looks and operates much like Unix, but is much more modular and easy to use. I don't have their address handy, but someone else here will be able to give you the address and phone number for Microware Systems, the people that make OS-9. They will be able to send you more information if you like. Not that I don't want to talk to you, but it is difficult to explain about the entire operating system. If you have any specific questions, I'll be able to answer them for you. /*----------- /\/\ark -----------*/ There is 1 Reply. #: 17542 S15/Hot Topics 17-Feb-93 22:51:59 Sb: #17539-New Product Announcement Fm: Chris Perrault 75346,165 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Ok Walter here's the address for Microware: Microware Systems Corporation 1900 N.W. 114th Street Des Moines, Iowa 50325-7077 You should just give them a call at:515-224-1929 Ask them for some documentation of OS9 and they'll send you a BUNCH of FREE books and other documentation describing OS9. You'll be glad :) Like Mark said, there is so much about OS9 to just describe it in Forum, which is why I wish Microware still had their little section up because they had menu options that gave a great big summary on the products including OS/9. Have you ever heard of OSK? That IS OS9 under a different name. >Chris< Press !> #: 17621 S15/Hot Topics 05-Mar-93 17:52:49 Sb: #17539-New Product Announcement Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Microware Systems Corporation 1900 N.W. 114th St. Des Moines, Ia. 50322 (515) 225-1929 OS-9 has versions that run on Motorola 6809 or Hitachi 6309, and Motorola 680x0 processors. OS-9000 is an enhanced version of OS-9 that is written in C (instead of assembly like its predecessor) that runs on Intel 80386 and higher processors as well as the high end of the Motorola 680x0 family. C makes it portable, but for performance considerations some or the deep kernel routines are done in assembly. In many ways the OS-9(000) family of operating systems resemble Unix. However, as I understand it, Unix while is multi-tasking and multi-user, it is not what's referred to as a real-time operating system. OS9 has a pre-emptive interupt system. OS9 is also ROMable which makes it very handy for black-box applications. Chances are you've used an OS-9 system at some time in your life without knowing it. (I've been told that the do-it-yourself electronic scales at some post offices are run by a ROM-based OS-9 system under the covers. And that's just one. FermiLab uses an OS-9 system. NASA uses OS-9, I'm told on the shuttle.) There are experts in the forum here that are far more advance in the use of OS-9, but I'm sold on its viability and vitality. Lee Press !> #: 17654 S15/Hot Topics 08-Mar-93 03:03:02 Sb: #17621-#New Product Announcement Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X) Lee, > OS-9000 is an enhanced version of OS-9 that is written in C (instead of > assembly like its predecessor) that runs on Intel 80386 and higher processors > as well as the high end of the Motorola 680x0 family. C makes it portable, > but for performance considerations some or the deep kernel routines are done > in assembly. I think you sent this to the wrong person maybe (grin)?? /************* /\/\ark ************/ There is 1 Reply. #: 17733 S15/Hot Topics 15-Mar-93 14:34:33 Sb: #17654-New Product Announcement Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Yep, looks like I goofed. Lee #: 17734 S15/Hot Topics 15-Mar-93 14:40:42 Sb: #17530-New Product Announcement Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Walter J Schilling 70312,3406 Microware Systems Corporation 1900 N.W. 114th St. Des Moines, Ia. 50322 (515) 225-1929 OS-9 has versions that run on Motorola 6809 or Hitachi 6309, and Motorola 680x0 processors. OS-9000 is an enhanced version of OS-9 that is written in C (instead of assembly like its predecessor) that runs on Intel 80386 and higher processors as well as the high end of the Motorola 680x0 family. C makes it portable, but for performance considerations some or the deep kernel routines are done in assembly. In many ways the OS-9(000) family of operating systems resemble Unix. However, as I understand it, Unix while is multi-tasking and multi-user, it is not what's referred to as a real-time operating system. OS9 has a pre-emptive interupt system. OS9 is also ROMable which makes it very handy for black-box applications. Chances are you've used an OS-9 system at some time in your life without knowing it. (I've been told that the do-it-yourself electronic scales at some post offices are run by atROM-based OS-9 system under the covers. And that's just one. FermiLab uses an OS-9 system. NASA uses OS-9, I'm told on the shuttle.) There are experts in the forum here that are far more advance in the use hf OS-9, but I'm sold on its viability and vitality. Lee Press !> #: 17983 S15/Hot Topics 28-Apr-93 00:17:14 Sb: #New KiX\20 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) I've tried to upload files about our new low cost 68020 computer, the KiX\20. The database files are full and I can't do it. The KiX\20 WITH OSK, C and BASIC is based on the 25 Mhz 68020 and sells for ONLY $699.95! Until the database will accept the files I can email the information to you. Please send me email requesting the information. Frank Hogg - FHL There is 1 Reply. #: 17993 S15/Hot Topics 29-Apr-93 04:27:10 Sb: #17983-#New KiX\20 Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013 To: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 (X) Give 'er a shot now Frank. There is 1 Reply. #: 17995 S15/Hot Topics 30-Apr-93 22:18:28 Sb: #17993-New KiX\20 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Mike Ward 76703,2013 (X) I've just uploaded both the MGA and KiX\20 press release to dl15. Thanks #: 17984 S15/Hot Topics 28-Apr-93 00:17:37 Sb: New LOW cost KiX\20 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 I've tried to upload files about our new low cost 68020 computer, the KiX\20. The database files are full and I can't do it. The KiX\20 WITH OSK, C and BASIC is based on the 25 Mhz 68020 and sells for ONLY $699.95! Until the database will accept the files I can email the information to you. Please send me email requesting the information. Frank Hogg - FHL Press !> #: 18141 S15/Hot Topics 20-May-93 23:53:32 Sb: #New Product Announcement Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hi Mark... Got the floptical drivers from you April 22. Thanks for the prompt service. Got my drive and installed it today. Sure seems strange to have so much space on one little diskette. I love it! Now to shop for a source of inexpensive diskettes... Glen Hathaway - 71446,166 - COMPER There is 1 Reply. #: 18156 S15/Hot Topics 23-May-93 04:10:43 Sb: #18141-#New Product Announcement Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 Glen, > Got the floptical drivers from you April 22. Thanks for the prompt service. No problem, glad I could do it for you. Enjoy! /************* /\/\ark ************/ There is 1 Reply. #: 18159 S15/Hot Topics 23-May-93 12:01:40 Sb: #18156-New Product Announcement Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, how much are the Floptical drivers by themselves? And how much are the drives? Thanks... Press !> #: 19338 S15/Hot Topics 17-Nov-93 14:37:35 Sb: New life for the MM/1 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: All Scarffed recently from the CoCo LIST at pucc.princeton.edu ... Reply-To: "David M. Graham" Sender: COCO - Tandy Color Computer List From: "David M. Graham" Subject: MM/1 X-To: coco@pucc.princeton.edu To: Multiple recipients of list COCO Status: RO Well, don't look now, BUT the MM/1 is BACK! As the saying goes, I liked my MM/1 SO MUCH, I bought the company!!! ;) Not really, but BlackHawk Enterprises, Inc. has purchased the rights to produce the MM/1, pending financing, and if I receive enough purchase requests, I WILL have the MM/1 back in production by NLT February 28, 1994. So, get those cards and letters coming, and thanks for your support!!! David M. Graham BlackHawk Enterprises nimitz@delphi.com Press !> #: 19391 S15/Hot Topics 28-Nov-93 12:11:58 Sb: #19338-New life for the MM/1 Fm: Howard Luckey 74746,3207 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) As a happy MM/1 user I am glad to hear the good news. I hope you have great success with this venture. Howard Luckey delphi LUCKYONE CIS 74746,3207 ********** By InfoXpress 1.01 of course! ********** #: 19380 S15/Hot Topics 23-Nov-93 14:21:17 Sb: #MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: All Scarffed from the CoCo LIST ... Announcement for All MM/1 Owners The much rumored 4 Meg memory hack is now a reality. The Dirt Cheap Computer Stuff Co. has tested it and it works just fine. As a service to other MM/1 owners, we can provide those with the technical skills the details of the hack and you can go for it yourself. You'll need some real good soldering skills and be able to get some simple parts. Of course, if you do the hack yourself, you're on your own. For those not so technically inclined, or those not too sure about themselves, DccS will perform the hack for you for a small fee. If you are interested, send in your I/O board along with $50 and we'll do the hack for you, test it, and ship your board back within two weeks (unless we get swamped, then you'll be notified of the delay). If you would like us to get the SIMMs and install them for you, please contact me at the number and address below. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, the 4 Meg hack is a method to allow your MM/1 to use 4 Meg SIMMs without the need to buy a new backplane. This will give you a 9 Meg system, 1 Meg for video and 8 Meg of user RAM. Dirt Cheap Computer Stuff Co. 1368 Old Hwy 50 East Union, MO 63084 314-583-1168 There is 1 Reply. #: 19382 S15/Hot Topics 23-Nov-93 21:15:22 Sb: #19380-#MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Geezzz, ain't Mark blessing us here with his presence no more???? There are 2 Replies. #: 19385 S15/Hot Topics 24-Nov-93 17:32:09 Sb: #19382-MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) > Geezzz, ain't Mark blessing us here with his presence no more???? Nah ... I don' think that's the problem. More likely, he put together this file at the office and shipped it out over the Internet to me at wuarchive and asked that I post it on the CoCo LIST. (for some reason, his site can receive, but not post.) I thought it was a "newsworthy" post and just cross posted it here. *- Steve -* #: 19387 S15/Hot Topics 27-Nov-93 04:51:22 Sb: #19382-MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, > Geezzz, ain't Mark blessing us here with his presence no more???? I told Steve I'd take care of the CIS and Delphi posts. Apparently, he got carried away (grin). /************* /\/\ark ************/ (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01) Press !> #: 19404 S15/Hot Topics 02-Dec-93 15:27:25 Sb: #PIPELINES Online! Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: All The OS9 Forum is pleased to announce the availability of Volume 8 Number 1 of Microware's "Pipelines" magazine in Library 15 as PIPE81.LZH. "Pipelines" is published by Microware Systems Corporation. This issue contains the full text of the following articles and features as found in the print edition: o A Flood of New Products from Des Moines o OS-9 V3.0 introduces new kernels, new features and higher performance o Introducing FasTrak o Ultra C Version 1.1 Now Available o OS-9000 Supports PC/104 Platform o OS-9000/VPC V1.1 Released o X Window System Released for OS-9000 o OS-9/MVME 162 Board Support Packages Available o Microware Chosen As A Motorola Platinum Member o OS-9 Provides Support for New 68349 o Source Level Debugger V2.6 Now Available o MShell V1.1 Released for OS-9 and OS-9000 o X.25 Support Added to ISDN File Manager o New Markets Open, Export Restrictions Change o Next-Generation Traffic Systems Rely on OS-9 o Japanese Car Navigation System Based On CD-I o OS-9 at the Dartford River Crossing o Surviving the Flood of '93 o Third-Party Products Our thanks to Microware for allowing us the opportunity to bring this information to the members of the OS9 Forum! Should you find this method of disseminating "PIPELINES" helpful, please drop Microware a note and let them know. There is 1 Reply. #: 19405 S15/Hot Topics 03-Dec-93 08:22:47 Sb: #19404-#PIPELINES Online! Fm: James Truesdale [JBM] 71174,3442 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) >> Should you find this method of disseminating "PIPELINES" helpful, >> please drop Microware a note and let them know. And how should I do this? There is 1 Reply. #: 19406 S15/Hot Topics 03-Dec-93 12:05:51 Sb: #19405-PIPELINES Online! Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: James Truesdale [JBM] 71174,3442 Well ... there is an E-Mail address in the body of the file, but ... I'd send it to the editor, Steve Simpson, at steves@microware.com. Steve Press !>2 The OS-9 Forum+ Read Menu Read 1 [NEW] messages 2 Message NUMBER 3 WAITING messages for you (0) Search [new] messages 4 FROM (Sender) 5 SUBJECT 6 TO (Recipient) Enter choice !>1 #: 19409 S15/Hot Topics 04-Dec-93 01:07:32 Sb: #19380-#MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) > > For those not so technically inclined, or those not too sure about themselves, > DccS will perform the hack for you for a small fee. If you are interested, > send in your I/O board along with $50 and we'll do the hack for you, test it, > and ship your board back within two weeks (unless we get swamped, then you'll > be notified of the delay). If you would like us to get the SIMMs and install > them for you, please contact me at the number and address below. > The Hack is $50.00, how much for the Simm's? If I get my 68340 upgrade working will be getting the hack, I either do it my self or have it done at Dirt Cheep Computer Stuff Co. So Could You please send me the docs for the hack, so that I can see if I can do it myself or will have it done by Your Company's Staff... Dieter ***Send via InfoXpress*** There are 2 Replies. #: 19414 S15/Hot Topics 04-Dec-93 15:15:06 Sb: #19409-MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 To: Dieter G. Rossmann The OS-9 Forum+ Read Menu Read 1 [NEW] messages 2 Message NUMBER 3 WAITING messages for you (0) Search [new] messages 4 FROM (Sender) 5 SUBJECT 6 TO (Recipient) Enter choice !> #: 19439 S15/Hot Topics 07-Dec-93 23:46:21 Sb: #19414-MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766 To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X) > > The Hack is $50.00, how much for the Simm's? > > I can give you an idea as to what they will probably cost. 4M SIMMS are > currently going for approximately $150. If you get them for less than that, you > should jump on them. > Thanks! I gues I will have to wait a few months, my finances are a little tight right now, Christmas You know! G'Day! ---Dieter--- **** Edited with KVed and **** *** Uploaded with InfoXpress Version 1.0.1 *** #: 19433 S15/Hot Topics 07-Dec-93 06:27:50 Sb: #19419-MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, > Too bad there isn't an exchange service. Actually, there is. I didn't mention it because I figured I'd get swamped with requests and I only have two I/O boards to lend out. If you need yours done right away, I can lend you a board. Let me know when to send it. /************* /\/\ark ************/ (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01) #: 19440 S15/Hot Topics 07-Dec-93 23:46:33 Sb: #19419-#MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) > Dieter, please let me know if you are successful doing the hack. If so, I'll > bring my computer with me next time I come out to Alberta and make a side trip > to Lethbridge.... Not that I need to save the $50, but I don't want to be > without my computer for two weeks. Too bad there isn't an exchange service. > Hi Bob, after I get the info, I will be in a better position to know if I kan do it, but if it looks like to much hacking I problably will get it done also... Yes! an exchange service would be great, then I would not even consider doing it myself... Will let You know if I can do it, as soon as I get the info... G'Day! ---Dieter--- **** Edited with KVed and **** *** Uploaded with InfoXpress Version 1.0.1 *** There is 1 Reply. #: 19446 S15/Hot Topics 08-Dec-93 18:11:40 Sb: #19440-MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766 Mark has offered an exchange service. I suggest you give him a call. I, for one, am taking advantage of the offer! Press !> #: 19460 S15/Hot Topics 09-Dec-93 21:19:46 Sb: #19419-#MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) > Dieter, please let me know if you are successful doing the hack. If so, I'll > bring my computer with me next time I come out to Alberta and make a side trip > to Lethbridge.... Not that I need to save the $50, but I don't want to be > without my computer for two weeks. Too bad there isn't an exchange service. > Bob, have looked over the docs and I/O board, and have decided NOT to attempt to do the Hak myself! I will be using the swap option from DCCS as soon as I get the cash together for the Simm's and the hak... I suggest You do the same... Dieter P.S. Tryed to send You this message last night, but some how I got an error in the message files I uploaded and the computer just stoped, had to reset to get the system going again... Hope you get this message... Dieter ---Dieter--- **** Edited with KVed and **** *** Uploaded with InfoXpress Version 1.0.1 *** There is 1 Reply. #: 19466 S15/Hot Topics 10-Dec-93 17:32:26 Sb: #19460-MM/1 4MEG hack Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766 > Bob, have looked over the docs and I/O board, and have decided NOT to > attempt to do the Hak myself! I will be using the swap option from > DCCS as soon as I get the cash together for the Simm's and the hak... I > suggest You do the same... I think you made the right decision. Mark stepped me though the hack instructions and my head was spinning! It's not for the faint at heart. One false move and you've ruined a multi-level board. *- Steve -* Press !> #: 19492 S15/Hot Topics 17-Dec-93 22:20:40 Sb: GWINDOWS for the MM1 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: all GWINDOWS NOW AVAILABLE FOR THE MM1 Background: Last year I announced the availability of GWINDOWS for the MM1 provided a certain number of orders were received. I did not get the orders and therefore dropped the project. Enter Ray Tremblay of Repengny Quebec. In November of '92 he bought the TC70 version of GWINDOWS after successfully patching the demo version to work on his MM1. We discussed using his patches and offer it to the MM1 users. I decided not to do this at that time for various reasons. Fast forward 1 year. A short time ago Delmar offered to port GWINDOWS to the MM1 if 20 orders were received. He has not gotten that many and has inferred that he would drop the project. Many who had placed orders expressed sadness about this and that got me thinking. Sooo... First I called Mike Smith of Hazelwood who owned the port to the TC70. I suggested that because the TC70 was history. And that we were not likely to do a video board with the VSC. He would not mind the good will gained by giving the source of the driver to MM1 users so that they might 'fine tune' the port for their own use. It took some talking but he was convinced to do this if the source was not freely distributed beyond those MM1 owners who bought GWINDOWS. Next I called Ray and because Mike was not charging for the source he decided to give away his work also. However GWINDOWS is a licenseed product and there is cost involved even if a full blown port is not done. Here are the details. The package includes the complete TC70 version of GWINDOWS with manual. Plus you get the source of the driver for the VFC. Plus you get the patches that Ray did to make it work on the MM1. Because of the generosity of Mike Smith of Hazelwood and Ray Tremblay we can offer GWINDOWS for only $150. Caveat: Neither FHL or Hazelwood have access to a MM1. At this price we could not offer updates or support even if we did have access to a MM1. By providing Rays patches and the driver source we expect MM1 users to be self sufficient and to share improvements/enhancements to the driver/port among themselves. This is not a supported port of GWINDOWS like those for the KiX but it will provide you with a complete working version of GWINDOWS for your MM1 and allow you to develop software for GWINDOWS. Availability: Ray is emailing the patches to me this weekend (12/17/93) and Mike is shipping the source next week. Once those are in my hands I can ship GWINDOWS. Possibly by Christmas. I hope you understand and appreciate the generosity of Mike Smith of Hazelwood and Ray Tremblay who have made this possible without compensation. Frank Hogg -- FHL 315/469-7364 #: 19497 S15/Hot Topics 18-Dec-93 12:11:26 Sb: FHL G-WINDOWS OFFER Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: ALL Reference message from FHL (#19492) offering his old TC70 G-WINDOWS package including source for the driver. I think the following facts are important to those considering his offer. 1. I believe the edition number of the Hazelwood package is 37. The current release is edition #50. Significant changes, mostly enhance- ments but several bug fixes also, occurred since the release of edition 37. Most of the important changes resulted in the release of edition 45 late last year. While not as significant, edition 50 (just released) includes additional changes. As I recall, several of the changes did effect the driver. 2. While the source code to the driver may be included, unless the programmer has the associated *.a, *.l and *.h files, he will be unable to compile the driver unless he constructs his own files. These files are quite involved. The *.a, *.l and *.h files are proprietary files to GESPAC/ Steve_Adams and the language in my licensing agreement prohibits me from giving or selling these to anyone. I assume the same is true of any other agreement GESPAC/Steve_Adams are parties to. Further, without the portpack manual, almost 200 pages, it will be diffi- cult for a programmer to be certain he has implemented all of the required functions correctly. Attempting to deduce this from source code is time consuming and difficult. Again, this document is proprietary. 3. It was stated that this would be an unsupported package. DELMAR supports all products we sell whether hardware or software. Support for the G-WINDOWS ports to the SYSTEM IV and SYSTEM V computers continues for 1 year after purchase at no cost to the customer. When edition 45 of G-WINDOWS was released, I sent updates to all purchasers of G-WINDOWS at no charge (except shipping to overseas customers). Since the changes in edition 50 are not significant, I'm not providing automatic updates but all new sales (including the proposed port to the MM/1) will be with the latest edition. To emphasize, a port to the MM/1 will receive the same support provided our other customers. 4. Frank Hogg states "... and allow you to develop software for GWINDOWS." This is wrong. To develop software for G-WINDOWS you will require the 'developers pak'. Regardless of the source, it is an extra charge (unless the seller wishes to absorb the cost charged by GESPAC/Steve_ Adams). 5. I believe that releasing the source code to the driver can be a disaster. Without full knowledge of what is expected of the driver by G-WINDOWS, different flavors of G-WINDOWS can appear which may be incompatible with each other and main stream ports of G-WINDOWS. Further, as new editions of G-WINDOWS are released and software is written and/or updated under the later editions, there is no assurance that the software will be compatible. An example is ControlCalc (from RTware). The version being sold today requires G-WINDOWS edition 45 or higher. IMO, if users cannot be assured of obtaining the latest version of G-WINDOWS and cannot be assured of continued support for G-WINDOWS, they are probably better off without it. One serious problem the CoCo community has and is facing are all the unsup- ported patches, 'improvements', etc. to the OS and software. Thus far, OSK has not suffered from this problem nor do I think we need to start now. If Hazelwood/FHL want to offer G-WINDOWS for the MM/1 - fine, I have no problem with that. But it should be a port of the latest edition to insure compati- bility across all platforms and be fully supported. Ed Gresick DELMAR CO Press !>1 #: 19508 S15/Hot Topics 20-Dec-93 17:25:19 Sb: GWINDOWS for MM/1 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: ALL Frank Hogg in his message #19504 made several statements which require clarification and correction. Frank Hogg didn't have to call Steve Adams to find out what changes had occurred to G-WINDOWS. He need only read the current edition of the 'edition.h' file provided by Steve. All changes to G-WINDOWS are listed there. Also, Steve lists to whom and when he has sent updated versions. DELMAR CO is listed twice. First, his conversation with Steve Adams wherein he claims Steve stated the only changes to G-WINDOWS involved - > 1) The Japanese version > 2) Ultra C use > 3) GView > 4) OS9000. > There is no significant difference between 37 and 51 other than those. I wasn't privy to the conversation nor, apparantly, was anyone else. But I doubt Steve Adams made the above statements as claimed. One need only look at the 'edition.h' file provided with G-WINDOWS. I include a copy with all copies of G-WINDOWS I sell. From edition 37 through edition 50, there were over 200 changes. While many of these did deal the Kanji version, OS-9000 and some with Ultra C and GView, there are many others that deal directly with G-WINDOWS. To illustrate just a few of the changes since edition 37 - Change to WFM (the window file manager) - 'changed so CLUT is correctly set-up before background color in window is drawn when a window is made visible or moved to the top of the window stack.' Change to DESKTOP - 'Fixed bug that wrongly identified text files as shell scripts.' Change to WFM - 'Fixed task queuing mechanixm so high priority processes don't lock low priority processes on fast CPUs.' (I don't know if the 68340 qualifies as a fast cpu.) Change to WFM - 'Fixed bug in "Window_Get(W_RawScreenData)" function which would inadvertantly change contents of the BOX parameter.' Change to WFM - 'Added a cache flush so WFM would work with copy-back cache.' Added utility - 'editframe' - a frame editor for G-WINDOWS. The utility is especially important to hardware with limited resolution capabilities such as the KIX/MGA board and the MM/1. It permits reducing the width of the window border permitting a larger window area. There are other changes pertinent to G-WINDOWS including the use of many environment variables. 'edition.h' is solely the product of Steve Adams and all changes listed therein are his including the ones I extracted above. Hence, I question the veracity of Frank Hogg's report of his conversation. I will post a copy of the latest 'edition.h' I have in the library. I don't mean to imply G-WINDOWS is buggy. It isn't. But no one has yet to write the perfect code. As Steve Adams finds or is made aware of problems, he resolves them immediately. To my knowledge and experience, none of the 'bugs' will result in crashing G-WINDOWS. G-WINDOWS will simply ignore the error or respond with an appropriate error message. This is also true when you try to run certain software written under later versions of G-WINDOWS but run under earlier versions. Further, Steve has been adding enhancements to G-WINDOWS. Frank Hogg reports the following statement from Steve Adams - > As far as I know there is no changes to the drivers required to update to > newer versions of GWINDOWS from #37 on. It is true that a driver written under edition 37 will work under edition #50. Since certain library functions may've been changed and/or added, the driver should be re-compiled with the new library/header files to insure these are picked up. In fact, this was neccesary for the 2 releases I received. Sometimes Steve includes suggestions on new algorithms to perform some of the functions in the driver. I'm learning others. A new release is a good time to review the driver code to insure everything is optimized and is wholly consistent with the other modules comprising G-WINDOWS. A new release is not because of the driver. The Window File Manager (WFM), Desktop and a whole host of related programs and utilities may be updated. These updates come from Steve Adams. An update is really a whole new G-WINDOWS package and DELMAR CO distributes them as such. I suppose it's a matter of how we perceive our responsibility to our customers. My preference is to provide the best and latest I can to my customers. The following dialogue is most interesting - > FH: What about ControlCalc? And how much does it cost? > SA: ControlCalc may be the only difference. It may > require a newer edition. I don't know the cost for sure > but I think it's $6,000. > FH: Well if it costs that much then it is not an issue here. ... The statement 'it is not an issue here' is presumptuous. Following FHL's reasoning would preclude the MM/1 or MM/1A being considered as a platform for ControlCalc and perhaps other programs which might be developed and released in the future. I don't believe the distributor of a package of this type should pre-judge the market for other hardware. More info on ControlCalc and G-WINDOWS. It is true that the Developer's version of ControlCalc costs $6000.00. But the Run-Time is only $995.00. ControlCalc uses G-VIEW. Also a very expensive package (but included in the price of the Developer's version of ControlCalc). It is G-VIEW that is sensitive to the version of G-WINDOWS being used. I don't think we can expect the average G-WINDOWS user to purchase G-VIEW, but a demo version of G-VIEW is included with G-WINDOWS. Except for the size of the source code it can process, it is a full-fledged, working version. (I think it's limited to about 100 lines of source code.) I am aware of one programmer who is using this version of G-VIEW and will be including the gadgets, etc. generated in his software. There is no reason other programmers can't take advantage of the demo version of G-VIEW as well. Will a user with an older version of G-WINDOWS be able to run his software? I think it really will depend on what the programmer has done but I don't see why anyone should take chances. > ... Delmars comments annoyed me and I have decided to pursue this. Since Frank Hogg credits my comments with causing him to withdraw his offer of an obselete and unsupported version of G-WINDOWS, I feel my efforts were worth while. In message #19505, Frank Hogg is now offering a current, supported version of G-WINDOWS. Fine - I have no problem with that _if_ he follows through and is committed to continued and ongoing support. But I think the OSK community might feel more comfortable had he pursued this course of action originally without being 'annoyed' by me. His own statement creates doubts as to his motivation. Judging by his past actions, he does not seem interested in providing up-to- date products. In fact, he appears obsessed rationilizing his failure to provide current software. The TC70 was delivered with Version 2.3 of OSK and, according to the best information I've been able to get, he is still providing Version 2.3 OSK with his KIX series of computers. I believe all other providers of OSK hardware have long ago switched to Version 2.4. It would appear that his MGA board is being shipped with edition 37 of G-WINDOWS. So, does he demonstrate a history of providing up-dated products and support? Before making a decision, you may wish to consider the following factors - Several TC70 customers purchased G-WINDOWS from FHL. What kind of support have they received including upgrades? What version of G-WINDOWS is being shipped for the KIX/MGA? What support are these customers receiving? Since Ray Tremblay is an independent agent, what is his long term commit- ment for support and upgrades. What will Frank Hogg do in the event Ray, for whatever reason, is unable or unwilling to continue his support? Can you call Frank Hogg most any time and get support? Is he knowledgeable about G-WINDOWS? The developer's pak? G-VIEW? What documentation is included? In addition to the official documentation for G-WINDOWS, DELMAR includes a comprehensive tutorial to assist new users get started using G-WINDOWS. Because of the commitments already made, I will continue my offer and permit the market to decide who is capable of best serving them. Those who have placed orders with me and wish to cancel certainly may do so. Just let me know. Ed Gresick DELMAR CO #: 19513 S15/Hot Topics 20-Dec-93 23:42:44 Sb: GWINDOWS on the MM1 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: all Please refer to message #80584 on DELPHI. In that message we showed how we caught Ed Gresick red handed deliberately falsifying benchmark results. He lied about us and about our products. That message was the culmination of many weeks of grief where Ed Gresick put all of us thru the wringer. Now he has the unmitigated gall to question MY veracity when it was he who has been proven BY HIS OWN WORDS and IN HIS OWN HAND to be deceitful! Shame on him. Now he wants to start this all over again with another long winded flame about our port of GWINDOWS to the MM1. Not me! Not again! You will notice in message #80657 (again going back to the old DELPHI thread) that he did not admit in full to what he had done. His 'apology' such as is was was NEVER accepted by Mike Smith or myself. This is all I have to say on this matter in this forum. All further comments from Ed Gresick and his past lies will be dealt with in a different venue. Frank Hogg -- FHL PS. If you do not have access to DELPHI I will be happy to email you the two messages referred to above. #80584 and #80657. Press !> #: 19514 S15/Hot Topics 21-Dec-93 04:49:05 Sb: Message 19513 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: ALL Reference message #19513. It's a shame Frank Hogg can't stick to facts and performance and has to resort to theatrics, hysterics and rhetoric. He totally ignores his lies re the SYSTEM V. He does not deny his hardware uses OSK Version 2.3 vs Version 2.4 nor his use of an obselete version of G-WINDOWS. Further, he does not indicate any intent to upgrade his systems to current versions. Since he isn't supporting his products with upgrades, one can only wonder what kind of on-going support he will provide to software effecting a competitor's product. I think it's sufficient to say that my work has been subject to public scrutiny at 3 different shows; i.e., Chicago, San Diego and Atlanta. At the Atlanta show, several visitors did request verification of the test results I claimed here and in my advertising. I was able to do this and subtantiated my claims. In fact, the benchmark tests results were slightly better than I claim in my advertising. At the San Diego show and the Atlanta show, comments were made comparing the performance of the SYSTEM V/G-WINDOWS favorably with SUN work-stations. To my knowledge, Hazelwood/FHL's work has never been shown publicly and their claims have never been verified. Further, FHL's claim of the fastest G-WINDOWS port under OS-9 is false. There are at least 2 other ports from other OEM's that have performance far superior to that claimed by FHL. The burden of proof of his claims is on FHL. IMO, all other claims and statements from Frank Hogg should be taken in the same context. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO P.S. Frank Hogg offered to send 2 specific messages. These will be out of context. I'd suggest anyone wishing further information, request the entire thread, unedited. Alternatively, I can provide all the messages comprising the thread. Press !>