#: 13763 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 00:08:12 Sb: #13761-#MM1 Questions: Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen - I think cgfx.l was written in C. I started to write one in asm, but Mike H had done such a great job, that I switched and wrote a bgfx instead (for basic). No idea on _ss_palette. No keyboard mouse yet, but thanks for the reminder! Manuals for windows soon; I've heard OSK manuals are going out. Wish I had time to play with Oddjob, but haven't so far! There is 1 Reply. #: 13764 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 01:00:43 Sb: #13763-MM1 Questions: Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kev... I'm managing to stumble along so far without manuals, but they sure would make things easier. I've managed to write around anything in cgfx.l that I can't get to work. You've got a bgfx! When do we get it? I don't like Basic too much, but it's nice for roughing out ideas quickly. I've got a copy of Leventhal's 68000 assembler book on the way - when that gets here, I'll be in business. Hey, can you tell us any details of how to get at all the nice hardware goodies built into the VSC chip, or is that all a secret? I'd hate to have to do everything legally, ya know... (ie. through the OS) #: 13765 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 11:23:19 Sb: #13761-#MM1 Questions: Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, Are you the same guy who had the problems with the Palette() fucntion in the lib? 'Cause I compiled the code posted and had the expected results. (No '1's printed to my screen!) I'm asking cause the _ss_palette() function works fine too. Maybe your not calling it quite right, so here's an example: [Continued Next Message] There are 2 Replies. #: 13777 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Dec-91 00:32:59 Sb: #13765-MM1 Questions: Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Hi Mike... Tried that little program you gave me in your messages. When I compiled it with the stock MM/1 cgfx.l, it wouldn't work. Drew the lines, but hadn't loaded the palette registers, so they didn't change to red, green, etc. I downloaded the cgfx.l from here, recompiled and it works!!! I haven't tried yet, but I assume the Palette function is fixed too. Any MM/1 owners out there being frustrated by this thing - delete the stock cgfx.l and get version 2 from here!!! BTW - I was calling everything correctly - I recompiled some of the source I couldn't get to work before with the new lib and it ran fine! Thanks Mike... #: 13856 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 21:25:08 Sb: #13765-#MM1 Questions: Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Hi Mike... Hey, can I post version 2 of cgfx.l on Delphi? Some people over there are interested in it and can't afford to log on here. There is 1 Reply. #: 13919 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Jan-92 16:18:53 Sb: #13856-#MM1 Questions: Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) I rather not have it posted. There is a newer Version to be released RSN. I don't mind if you E-Mail copies to folks that have MM/1's tho... Sound OK? There is 1 Reply. #: 13924 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Jan-92 22:13:12 Sb: #13919-MM1 Questions: Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Hi Mike... Sounds OK to me. What's in the new version? #: 13766 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 11:24:11 Sb: #13761-MM1 Questions: Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) /* Paltst.c */ #include #define STDOUT 1 #define DELAY 4 char pals[256][3]; main() { int count, path; char ch; if ((path = open("/w",3)) == -1) { printf("Cannot open '/w'\n"); exit(1); } DWEnd(path); DWSet(path,3,0,0,40,26,0,0,127); Select(path); CurOff(path); ScaleSw(path,0); drawlines(path); sleep(DELAY); for (count = 0; count < 256; count++) { /* set to shades of red */ pals[count][0] = count; pals[count][1] = 0; pals[count][2] = 0; } _ss_palette(path,0,pals,256); sleep(DELAY); for (count = 0; count < 256; count++) { /* set to shades of green */ pals[count][0] = 0; pals[count][1] = count; pals[count][2] = 0; } _ss_palette(path,0,pals,256); sleep(DELAY); for (count = 0; count < 256; count++) { /* set to shades of blue */ pals[count][0] = 0; pals[count][1] = 0; pals[count][2] = count; } _ss_palette(path,0,pals,256); sleep(DELAY); for (count = 0; count < 256; count++) { /* set to shades of grey */ pals[count][0] = pals[count][1] = pals[count][2] = count; } _ss_palette(path,0,pals,256); sleep(DELAY); DefColr(path); /* Now back to the default palette */ /* sound the bell, wait for user input then close /w */ Bell(path); read(path,&ch,1); Select(STDOUT); close(path); } /* Draw a scale gradient from left to right, using all 256 colors and the entire screen */ drawlines(path) int path; { int count; /* now draw lines in the new colors */ for (count = 0; count < 320; count++) { FColor(path,(count * 256) / 320); SetDPtr(path,count,0); Line(path,count,207); } } [ Continued Next Message ] #: 13767 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 11:24:43 Sb: #13761-#MM1 Questions: Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) If this doesn't work, as it does here, then let me know. Did you grab the last cgfx.l here in the lib? Or are you using the one that came with the MM/1 disks? There is 1 Reply. #: 13773 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 21:27:50 Sb: #13767-MM1 Questions: Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Hi Mike... Thanks... I'll try that and see if it does the trick. I'm using the cgfx.l that came with the MM/1. Is the one here better? #: 13775 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Dec-91 21:33:30 Sb: colors.ar Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: All Hi all... If you have trouble running 'colors', make sure you do a 'tmode nopause' before running it. I don't think I put it in the program... #: 13781 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jan-92 10:53:08 Sb: #13759-#shell Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) IDENT shows it as edition #52. It's the one that came with my production model MM-1. Maybe it's the HD? I'm on floppies. --Colin There is 1 Reply. #: 13783 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jan-92 18:15:05 Sb: #13781-#shell Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X) That's the same shell version as I have. And mine does not access .login! Hmmm, maybe it something in the way init or sysgo is set up??? Have to do some sluething... There is 1 Reply. #: 13791 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jan-92 20:47:31 Sb: #13783-shell Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Hmm. I dunno! If you need some more info from me, feel free to ask! --Colin #: 13843 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 12:51:03 Sb: #TOP curses Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Has anyone had any success using the TOP version of ncurses? I've spent hours extracting all the libs and defs and sticking everything in the correct directories.... I've even managed to compile one of the demos (MILLE), but when I try to exec it I the system just hangs. When I hit ctrl-c my window goes away. I'm at the point of re-formatting all the TOP disks--they just don't seem to be worth the frustration! There is 1 Reply. #: 13950 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jan-92 00:47:20 Sb: #13843-TOP curses Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, TOPS ncurses causes my system to die the death of 1000 crashes as well. I'm just using Microware's termcap library for now. Seems safer. Bud #: 13844 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 12:51:38 Sb: #dir problems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all This really doesn't make any sense! I put a new 'dir' command in my CMDS directory and renamed the old one "dir.mw". Now I find that sometimes I get the new one, sometimes the old one. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to this. I've checked my startup and .login files to make sure neither is doing a load. Also did a check of all the other modules in CMDS to make sure that none of them had DIR merged with it. Anyone have any other ideas of why this might be happening? There is 1 Reply. #: 13850 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 17:48:46 Sb: #13844-#dir problems Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob - No clues (other than merged versions..... Why not try patching the modulename to something like 'MWd' and see if it still happens. If not, then the DIR module is getting into memory somehow.. Oh - how about this: does anything in your startup process use or load dir? If so, is the STICKY bit set? If yes, then it sits in memory anyway until it's thrown out by memory allocation routines that need the space for something else. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 13854 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 18:48:13 Sb: #13850-#dir problems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) I can now duplicate the problem at will. It seems that the MW dir is in the ROMs right between format and copy. On a cold start dir DOES NOT appear in the modules directory. However, after a 'break' or if I reset the computer by pressing 'reset' quickly, or after the computer re-boots itself becuase of a system crash the dir DOES appear. However, if I cold start or hold 'reset' for a full second it doesn't. I checked with debug and dir is in the ROM (even when it doesn't show up). But for some reason it hasn't been mapped it. I've solved the problem by setting the revison byte of my new dir to 2 and then doing a 'load dir' in my startup. That way it'll always be loaded in. But I sure don't understand why it is ignored in the ROM sometimes.... Maybe a flakey ROM? How about some of you hardware experts? There is 1 Reply. #: 13860 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jan-92 23:27:55 Sb: #13854-#dir problems Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Dunno... I've not noticed if the ROM commands are being loaded sometimes (ie: if the ROMs are being ignored sometimes). Will check. There is 1 Reply. #: 13869 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Jan-92 12:52:27 Sb: #13860-dir problems Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, the funny thing about this is that ONLY dir is being ignored on the ROMs, and it is right in the middle, between format and copy. Don't make no sense here! #: 13898 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Jan-92 01:46:11 Sb: MM/1 Windio Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin... I've got a bunch of questions to ask ya about the MM/1 and its windowing system. Here's the story: I started out using windio #17. Noticed the bell wouldn't work, but I thought it was that darn monitor cable again. Trying to start mode 8 or 9 windows crashed the machine. I wrote some graphic demos in C and found other people using windio #22 had problems running them. In my demos I changed screen type by DWEnding the current screen and immediately DWSetting the same window to the mode I wanted. (I switched to #22 about this time to find out what the trouble was). I found that when changing window type by this method, you have to either do a Select or quickly flip through your windows with the function keys to get the new window to display properly. Sometimes it works without all that, though, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the machine crashes. Why should I have to Select a window I'm already in? I used this method on Level II windows all the time with no problems. Windio #17 doesn't complain, it just won't open mode 8 or 9 windows without crashing the machine. You got any ideas? Does #22 have a bug? Kinda seems like it might... Also, I've been experimenting to find the real text and graphic resolutions of all the screen types - seems every piece of documentation I've seen gives different numbers. Are these correct: Type00 - 80x26 - 640x208 Type01 - 80x26 - 640x208 Type02 - 80x52 - 640x416 Type03 - 40x26 - 320x208 Type04 - 40x26 - 320x208 Type05 - 40x52 - 320x416 Type06 - 90x30 - 720x240 Type07 - 90x60 - 720x480 Type08 - 45x30 - 360x240 Type09 - 45x60 - 360x480 Any others we should know about? #: 13953 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jan-92 08:43:41 Sb: Ultra-Science Windows Fm: TONY ELLIOTT 71645,1367 To: All Does anyone here have any experience with Ultra-Science's Windowing software? I'm interested in actual performance in a multi-user environment (5-10 users) on a 68020 system. Does it use much overhead? Is it quick and pratical on Ascii terminals usch as the Qume QVT-101? I'd appreciate any user comments. #: 13958 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jan-92 18:49:44 Sb: #13950-TOP curses Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Hopefully someone will have time to have a look at TOPs ncurses and figure out the problem. I think it is more with the os9lib than with ncurses... but who knows! On the other hand, with the size of those routines it might be better and safer to stick to termcap.... #: 13973 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Jan-92 12:57:17 Sb: #13953-Ultra-Science Windows Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: TONY ELLIOTT 71645,1367 (X) Tony - do you mean the "Screens" program, for terminals, ported from Unix? If so, those that use it tell me they like it. Or do you mean "G-Windows", which requires a graphics card? #: 14005 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jan-92 09:33:08 Sb: Ultra-Science Windows Fm: TONY ELLIOTT 71645,1367 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres 76703,4227 (X) Yes, I believe I mean 'Screens'. We are using terminals (mostly non-graphics). So, I've ordered it and I let you know how I like it. While I have you... I am looking for a C Library for an older version of Sculptor. Apparently, when I wasn't looking, the organization which owned Sculptor rights in the US underwent some sort of change. I'm not sure where to go, now, to find what I need. I believe the last version we upgraded to was 1.6:8, but I'll have to check that. We are upgrading some of our in house CAD stuff and it would help to find a compatable library rather than to have to write it all. I appreciate any guidance that might be out there in this regard. I'm also in the market for a used 68020 board such as Hazelwoods board or would also consider Frank's uniquad. Has anyone outgrown such and want to let one go? #: 14009 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jan-92 11:31:42 Sb: #MB & syscall Fm: William Phelps 75100,265 To: ALL Could someone please tell me the format of the register structure used with syscall in OSK 2.4? I figured out the d0-d7,a0-a4 part, but how are other registers (like the ccr) passed? William There is 1 Reply. #: 14010 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jan-92 12:48:12 Sb: #14009-#MB & syscall Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: William Phelps 75100,265 (X) As you've found out, it's only... TYPE stack = d0,d1,d2,d3,d4,d5,d6,d7,a0,a1,a2,a3,a4:INTEGER DIM reg:stack No need for ccr, as the carry bit error flag will be picked up by Basic itself on return from syscall, and pick out any error code from d1. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14014 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jan-92 21:36:37 Sb: #14010-#MB & syscall Fm: William Phelps 75100,265 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Thanks for the information, but does that mean I have to use ON ERROR GOTO to do my own error trapping? I'd like to keep GOTO's to a minimum. William There is 1 Reply. #: 14022 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jan-92 11:38:00 Sb: #14014-MB & syscall Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: William Phelps 75100,265 (X) Yes, you have to use ON ERROR statements, which sometimes I like, sometimes I don't :-) On the other hand, we don't have to check for errors, which is very nice. I believe one Syscall's version used to be in Lib 12 here... it could be modified to return the error separately. #: 14111 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jan-92 20:03:52 Sb: #Mshell Discount? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: all A few weeks ago a few people mentioned Microware's new "Mshell," and how great it would be to have except that the price was out of the reach of most hacker types (myself included). Here's a marketing suggestion for Microware: In recognition of the benefits of having an avid (evangelical?) group of users spreading the word about their products, run a limited time special offer to users of the Compuserve and Delphi OS-9 forums. Set it up so that if you mention the 'the Compuserve/Delphi special' you would get a discount on one copy of Mshell. I don't think that this would affect their commercial sales much, how many of their commercial accounts are on here? In my opinion, a selling price of $100.00 would be reasonable. Thoughts, comments? -J There are 2 Replies. #: 14115 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jan-92 19:19:48 Sb: #14111-Mshell Discount? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 My personal feeling is that mshell should become a part of standard OSK system. The current shell is about brain dead, and badly needs replacement. Mshell is a wonderful addition and should be seen as part of standard distribution for enhancing user productivity. mshell will sell the OS. Marketing it separately keeps the majority of users in the dark about realizing that there is a good shell. A good normal distribution shell is a plus. For those who want an upgrade of shell only, it should be made as available as possible to help get OSK of the launching pad with acceptance. #: 14117 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 01:31:36 Sb: #14111-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 Your idea sounds great.....but I doubt that it will happen. I checked on the prices of both the latest version of the C Compiler, and also MW's Lint program (well, that wasn't the name they used, but it sure does SOUND like a lint program). Both of them were $850, and they would NOT budge one red cent from that price. The OSK marketplace is full of commercial users, not us home computer users, from what I'm told, and they price their programs on the basis of what they will sell for in the commercial marketplace. As the OSK marketplace right now has between 5,000 and 10,000 systems, and us 68070/68000 new marketplace probably does not exceed about 250 (for all TC70, MM/1 and System IV systems sold), our 'voice' will be little heard in Des Moines. If our 'new age' machines ever hit the 1-2,000 sales, then we might start having a slightly larger say in pricing of MW stuff. Until the, regretably, we'll be the little fly buzzing around the head of MW. I'm not putting us down, mind you, be we gotta look at this marketplace realistically. jim #: 14112 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jan-92 20:18:03 Sb: #MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: ALL Just thought I'd tell everyone that I got my MM/1 I/O board today. By the way, my serial number is 120848. I've installed it and formatted my 32 meg Seagate (the Quantum LPS105 hasn't been delivered yet). Now I've got to play or rather work with the computer to test everything out. Everything seems to be working perfectly so far. Ernie. There is 1 Reply. #: 14123 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 08:55:20 Sb: #14112-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) Erniyre,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re,der soning rean6-. ) re, #: 14132 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 20:51:21 Sb: #14123-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Jim, I received my MM/1 last August. No, I didn't receive the update disks with the I/O board. I have downloaded newer drivers from the Ocean BBS and the latest driver update from dl12 here. I noticed the mask number on the scsi chip is 08. I was able to get the Seagate formatted with the new drivers from the Ocean BBS and the hard drive is pretty fast (seems to be about as fast as the IDE drive on my 386). I talked to Paul today and he said the update disks should be going out soon. I think he said Mark G. had the master disks now. He also said he received the Quantum drives today and just finished printing a new catalog. I've put about 4 megs on the hard drive (a ST138) and tried FHL's hard disk backup program fbu. Using the command line: fbu -$=dir-ur -b=1024k -d=/d1 itt took 6 minutes and 28 seconds to complete the backup to previously formatted diskks. And this is using a relatively slow hard drive and without the newest scsi drivers. All in all, not too bad. Got ot go play some more. Type at you later. Ernie. There is 1 Reply. #: 14155 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Feb-92 10:21:54 Sb: #14132-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 You're one up on me, Ernie. The MM/1 arrived early last week (minus the I/O board at my request) and I quick ordered a Connor 120 meg HD, 2 megs of memory and a keyboard. All that stuff showed up by this past Friday. Friday evening Mark Griffith and I put the thing together (well ..... I did watch!) and it works. A couple of problems did crop up. The keyboard I ordered from Microlab in MI appears to be DOA. I'll check it out when I get back to the office. Otherwise, it's RMA-city for that puppy. Like many others, I'm anxiously awaiting my I/O board. From first impressions, it sure looks as if it will be worth the wait. Steve #: 14134 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 21:16:14 Sb: #14117-#Mshell Discount? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Lint? The only lint for OS-9 that I know of is a port of Gimpel's Generic Lint, and I thought someone other than Microware sold it. Alas, there is sort of a Catch 22 operating--more folks would buy it if it cost less. Gee, it would cost less if more people bought it. If I knew how to overcome the impasse, I'd probably be a lot richer. (Opinions expressed here are solely those of the poster.) There is 1 Reply. #: 14138 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 22:30:09 Sb: #14134-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) lint--> it was a lint type of program... a C Source Debugger that Microware is offering for $850. Shucks, if they were asking $400 for it, I'd consider it....but I can do my own debugging of C routines, and a lot of it, for $850 (grin) jim #: 14137 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 22:13:35 Sb: #14111-Mshell Discount? Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 Have you looked at the TOP shell. I will soon be in a position to support it properly, fix bugs, etc. - Carl #: 14135 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 21:22:38 Sb: #14127-arrays in 'C' Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) It's true for the 680x0, x < 2 or == 7. The reason is that OS-9 wants to use position-independent and re-entrant code, and also that the compiler can't look into the future and tell how much data space will be linked together to make a finished program. It therefore generates code presuming that the 68K base plus signed 16-bit offset will suffice to access a variable by name, unless you use the "remote" storage class, which will cause it to use a rather longer (but sufficient to access anything anywhere) code sequence to get to the variable. (The 680x0, x >= 2 and x != 7, have addressing modes that avoid the limitation, so it's not as big a deal for those processors, though there is a definite code savings for the 16-bit offset vs. 32-bit offset addressing modes, of course!) #: 14136 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jan-92 21:30:34 Sb: #New to OS9,Need Power Fm: JAMES LONG 70043,2203 To: ALL Not Being an avid os9 user (IBM or Msdos 5 is much friendlier, in my opinion) I am forced to put up with os9 innability to do much of anything from an OS standpoint. Does anyone Know where I can find such utilities as: TREE (or something like it), a NORTON COMMANDER like util, WHEREIS or FILEFIND, and lastly, is there any way I can make the prompt show the current directory (yes, like DOS) ? Im running OS9 2.2 68k from Micoware. How about a disk fix program that marks bad sectors out of the allocation table or am I dreaming ? I just read about MSHELL. What is that ? Being new to os9 is a pain. My system at home (286) cranks and thats what I want to do with this box but Im a little short on utilities. Anyone have a few suggestions? Thanks, James. There are 3 Replies. #: 14141 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Jan-92 11:43:58 Sb: #14136-New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: JAMES LONG 70043,2203 James - ANY time you step into a new environment it appears to be hostile and barren... this is mostly a) extreme familiarity with your previous environment and b) lack of knowledge about where to get the utils & tools for the new environment. With the possible exception of MS-DOS's new shell, I think most folks would find bare bones DOS a pretty ugly option as well. Most of my background with OS9 was with the 6809 version, so that may be of limited use to you. The good news is that most folks in the os9 domain post SOURCES in their AR files (our equivalent of .ZIP files - you'll need AR68.BIN to bust them up), and for the most part these sources will port fairly easily to 68K boxes. On a file finder, look at the FILES.AR source in DL9. Should port to OSK without too much of a problem. Regarding the other stuff, perhaps some of the more active 68K folks will chime in. Pete #: 14142 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Jan-92 16:40:52 Sb: #14136-New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: JAMES LONG 70043,2203 James, Having introduced many MS-DOS users to OS9, I think I can appreciate your dilemma. When people go from 'half an operating system' to an operating system as powerful as OS9, they are often quite bewildered. I think you'll find that the people on this forumn are friendly and helpful but they do expect you to do some of your own homework. I suggest you first study the OSK manual particularly those sections pertaining to the shell and format. Then go through library 12 and pull the TOP index. Many of the utilities you may need are there - no charge - PD stuff and pretty good. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO #: 14146 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Feb-92 09:21:39 Sb: #14136-New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: JAMES LONG 70043,2203 Want to find a filename anywhere on your disk? type: dir -arsu /dd ! grep Want to list all your directories? type: dir -n /dd If you want to look at a disk other than your default disk, just type the disk name instead of /dd. Want to see what your data directory is? type: pd The stock shell won't prompt you with the current data path, but the optional MSHELL (big bucks from Microware) might. I'm not sure about your disk checker program. I have to use MSDOS at work (we run PS/2's) and think OS-9 is rather easier to deal with. bud #: 14139 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Jan-92 06:33:05 Sb: Floppy Driver Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: All To All MM/1 Owners: I put the wrong floppy driver module in the MM/1 Update archives. That driver will not work with PCF. I have uploaded a new driver by itself in Library 12. As soon as it is enabled, please download it. Sorry for any problems my mistake may have caused. Mark #: 14151 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Feb-92 00:29:58 Sb: BASIC's INKEY Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: all Can anyone advise me on the use of INKEY in BASIC (on the 68000 that is)? The format as my manuals reads is INKEY(#) ant that is just about the same as the FILSIZ command. WHen I try to run INKEY from path 0 (the keyboard) I invariably come up with an error 208. I can run it from another path such as a disk file but what would be the point? All I want to do is the same as the INKEY under BASIC09 or even old DECBasic. Was trying to write a quick and nasty DISPLAY command for my new TC70 but it looks as if I will really have to polish up my C if I cannot get BASIC's INKEY to work from the keyboard. Looking back I find I lie a bit - the battle with INKEY is more in the area of a key converter so I can read the output from the arrow keys. Then I want to do the dislay. #: 14152 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Feb-92 01:52:58 Sb: MM/1 Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: all MM/1 for sale - includes the following : System unit w/1MB of RAM in 'baby' AT case (IMS) 1 TEAC and 1 FUJITSU 3.5" 1.2M floppy drives 1 QUANTUM LP105S SCSI drive (new, installed - waiting on I/O board) 1 Monterey 101 key keyboard - your choice of 'click' or 'soft' styles 1 Mouse Systems ergonomic Trackball (brand new in box) Complete set of Microware OS-9 v.2.4 manuals Signetics 68070 and VSC manuals All included IMS documentation and software - 'C', BASIC, Oddjob, etc. Current delivery position for I/O board and serial port(s) System has very LOW hours and delivery of I/O board will depend on when IMS ships to me. $1275 OBO Leave E-Mail - 'mail' instead of 'reply'ing to this message. ...Jim /exit Press !> #: 14159 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Feb-92 17:04:48 Sb: #14151-BASIC's INKEY Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 To: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 The way INKEY works (at least on the MM/1's version of BASIC) is that it returns a value if there is something in the keyboard buffer. You then have to use GET to find out what it is. Does this help any? It's completely different from BASIC-09. You have to do something like this: a=inkey(#) if a then get response; endif Hope this helps. --Colin #: 14167 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 00:15:16 Sb: #14151-BASIC's INKEY Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 Hi Bob, Normally, INKEY returns the number of characters waiting (using the SS_Ready GetStatus call). So you might say something like... DIM k:STRING[1] IF INKEY(#0) <> 0 THEN GET #0,k ENDIF But the stock TC70 video driver doesn't support SS_Ready (weird! but should be easy for them to fix), so you get the error 208 (unimplemented stat call) instead. There's no easy way around that without using a second process to sit and read the keyboard for you. However, if your desired program just needs to get one key at a time, and doesn't mind waiting for it (instead of actually polling for a key), then you can just: DIM k:STRING[1] GET #0,k And/or you could set up a signal (SS_SSig) to let you know when a key is hit. I hope one of these ideas will do what you need, until you get another driver setup. best - kevin #: 14170 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 13:21:02 Sb: #14146-New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 Yes, mshell does support several varieties of prompts, including current data directory, date, time, user, id, shell number, directory stack level .. #: 14177 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 19:55:33 Sb: #14136-#New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: JAMES LONG 70043,2203 Windsor Systems (and Delmar as well) sells a group of utilities called the "Pan Utilities" that have most of the things that you are looking for like 'tree,' 'whereis,' and 'filefind' (last two are really the same program), and a bunch of other useful utilities. A big plus is that you get the C SOURCE as well so you can fix things that are broke or that you don't like. I you get these, make sure that you get the version that has the 'fixes from JBM' as we fixed some problem/bugs/annoyances. I send in the changed source but have no idea if they're distributing our fixes. I don't have their phone number handy here at home, email me if you're interested and I'll get it to you later. -J There is 1 Reply. #: 14193 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Feb-92 13:37:19 Sb: #14177-New to OS9,Need Power Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) As an aside ... much of the public domain software I've tried (half?) produces bus trap errors on memory managed (protected) machines, due to unitialized pointers or whatever. The version of "whereis" that I have is an example. #: 14172 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 16:53:13 Sb: #14155-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Where did you get your memory? Did you find a good deal? I haven't even started to check into that yet. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 14179 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 21:15:25 Sb: #14172-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, I picked Hard Drive International for the memory. Lemme grab the sheet ... ME 1x8 - 80 1MB SIMM module 80 ns $39.00 each (they actually shipped 70 ns), and $10 for shipping via FE. At $88 total, I figure I'm still ahead. Tried to get a Quantum 105 meg drive, but they are back ordered 'till April. Second choice was a Maxtor .... but also out of stock. Finally settled on a Connor CP30100 120 meg 19 ms 3.5 1" drive for $369 from Data Storage MArketing, Inc. (They have the yellow ad around page 35 in Shopper every month.). The Focus Keyboard I bought didn't work. Thought it was DOA, but works fine in the XT and AT's at the office, so I'm guessing that it's another one that isn't compatable with the MM/1. (Northgate's cause problems as well.) I have a repacement Chicony due in. Hope I do better with that. Steve #: 14178 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 20:07:06 Sb: #14155-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, it sure was worth the wait. My Quantum 105 hasn't arrived yet but the Seagate I have connected is pretty fast. I don't think it's quite fast enough initializing because I sometimes don't get a successful boot. The problem is most noticable with the newest drivers using rbvccs. Using the rbsccs driver that Paul sent me I get more consistent boots. I'm happy with the machine and have been playing with it quite a bit. Hopefully the new hard drive will solve the occasional boot problem. By the way, the rb33c93a on my I/O board has mask #8 and I've told Paul about that. Ernie. There are 2 Replies. #: 14181 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 21:42:13 Sb: #14178-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) Yeah .... I had wanted the Quantum, but seems I waited too long. Word from several sources I tried said that Quantum is sending everything they have to Apple leaving them out in the cold. They have no choice but to recommend other manufacturers. I opted for a 120 meg Connor. Mark tells me to expect no problems with that pick. I sure wish IMS would have a list of 'known to (not) work) hardware. Sure would save on the telephone calls to Paul's answering machine! If folks want to leave a note here to me letting us know what success and/or failures they've had, I'd be happy to compile a file. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14203 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 18:31:12 Sb: #14181-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) I talked to Paul late last week and he said he had received some hard drives. I believe he said some of them were Quantums. He did say that most of the suppliers he had called had Quantums on backorder because Apple was buying all they could. I hope he got one for me. Ernie. There is 1 Reply. #: 14206 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 21:11:27 Sb: #14203-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) I opted to piece my system together myself, Ernie. Nothing against Paul and crew ... but I like doing my own sourcing of equipment. Looks like it paid off too! The new keyboard arrived today and works just dandy. It's a Chicony KB5191. Nothing special .... I don't know if I'd want to type my novel on it, but for $28 bucks, I can't gripe. If you're interested, I picked it up from an outfit out of the Shopper ... Ralin Wholesalers, Inc. I'm not planning on doing much with the box until the I/O board arrives, but I'll keep you posted. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14212 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Feb-92 18:13:05 Sb: #14206-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 I'm using a Chicony KB5161 I got several years ago to use with the Puppo interface on the CoCo. I have a Northgate OmniKey Ultra I'd love to use on thM/1 but it won't work. I haven't tried the fix to get it to functionbecause I have the Chicony. I've been reading the messages on Delphi about the new drivers. I tried to format a disk using the newest drivers with sct=33 and t0s=33. Got error 247. Changing to sct=31 and t0s=31 got a successful format. Using the older rbsccs sct and t0s of 33 works fine. Guess I'll leave Mark a message about that. Ernie. #: 14200 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 06:18:40 Sb: #14178-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) >I don't think it's quite fast enough initializing because sometimes I >don't get a successful boot. The problem is Use MODED to change the "coldstart retry count" to a higher number, maybe 50, and you should have no more problems. Don't use the driver you got from Paul, use the one in the update. If you have a mask number 8 on the SCSI controller and it actually works, you are a lucky camper. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14204 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 18:40:16 Sb: #14200-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) I've changed the coldstart retry count several times now. It is now at 150 and the machine boots from cold start every time now. Still won't boot from a RESET reliably though. The SCSI chip has the following markings on it: WD33C93A 00-08 9022 069019200102 PROTO I figure the date code is 9022 and the mask is #8. Does the PROTO mean it's a prototype? Doesn't matter as long as it works. By the way, I asked Paul for the demo you were running in Atlanta. He said he'd put it on my hard drive before he shipped it. Ernie. #: 14174 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 19:55:02 Sb: #14115-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) I can see users wanting a 'basic' shell for use in embedded applications where you don't need or want a 'full featured' shell and since OSK is targeted towards this marketplace.... Perhaps include BOTH shells, one for interactive development and one for imbedding in the final (probably ROMed) system. -J #: 14198 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 01:21:53 Sb: #14138-Mshell Discount? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 ( I don't remember if I poster this or not. If so, sorry for the duplication ) Jim, The C Source Debugger is much more and much different than a Lint. From what I understand it allows you to run you compiled C program much like debug, but loads in you actual C source too. You then can step thru it, set break points, etc. like debug. The benifit is that you get to see which line of C your are executing. I can see a program like that comming in real handy to debug my source. Lint, on the other hand, is available from Gimpel Software for $400 to $500 in what they call 'shrouded' C source. To get Gimpel's number look in DDJ or the C user's journal. If you want more info on Generic-Lint, lemme know. Mike #: 14176 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 19:55:17 Sb: #14117-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) I doubt that it will happen either but I doesn't hurt (much) to make the suggestion. I wonder how many of MW's industrial customers are even on Compuserve or Delphi or are even aware that they exist? -J #: 14175 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 19:55:10 Sb: #14137-#Mshell Discount? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Please let us know when it is available with support. I don't have time right now to risk on something that might not work exactly right! -J There is 1 Reply. #: 14183 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Feb-92 21:47:25 Sb: #14175-Mshell Discount? Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Have you tried it at all? I run it all the time. Haven't used shell in perhaps a year. But there were a couple little things - tmode in a script didn't turn pause off, the first line after a '#' in a script gets eaten, etc. But actually real solid. Anyway, I just compiled it for the first time and it runs but those things aren't fixed. Over the next week or so I will try to track them down and then put a version up here for all to wail upon. Then I will fix the bugs found there, and so on. - Carl #: 14194 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Feb-92 14:46:57 Sb: OSK bus traps Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: 72176,3565 (X) I felt guilty about the last remark on bus trap errors. I should put up or shutup so to speak. I find the problem in line 145 of my version of whereis.c, which reads as follows: if( s = index( s, '"' ) ) *s = '\0'; It should be changed to: if( s = index( as, '"' ) ) *s = '\0'; The value of "s" gets set to zero two lines earlier by an unsuccessful index function. The memory management objects to the access to address 0 in line 145, and causes a bus trap error. Nicely enough, the value of "s" was saved earlier in "as", for proper use later, and can also be used here in line 145, thus "s" is changed to "as" in line 145. The microware source level debugger (srcdbg) helps greatly in tracking these problems, and running programs under memory management with srcdbg sure makes these problems easier to find. #: 14195 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Feb-92 20:08:44 Sb: #printers and mm/1's Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: anyone HELP, I have a nice new Epson LQ-570 printer hooked up to my MM/1, all I can get it to do is print one character of garbage, the the printing process goes to sleep, never to awaken again.... its a hell of a time to take a NAP!?!?! any deep thoughts? btw. I've tried using both the stock sc68230 driver, Bob van der Poel's sc68230 driver, both drivers that came in the MM1update.ar pack, (altho I haven't tried using more that 1 driver at a time yet... I'll do that next).. oh, and FWIW. yes, I used the right /p for any given driver... (well most of the time anyway)... any help would be, um, helpful... (I have to have a report typed (and printed) by Fri.) btw. for anyone who is thinking about buying a printer, the Epson LQ-570 sure is neat, does a bunch of fonts, has scalable fonts, 24 pin 360x360 dpi, 8k buffer, makes coffee, etc.. if only it would PRINT! well I sapose ya cant have everything, but who ever heard of a printer that wont print? whats the point? Ken Gideon There are 2 Replies. #: 14201 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 06:18:44 Sb: #14195-#printers and mm/1's Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken, How long a cable are you using? Anything more than about 6 or 8 feet, depending upon the printer, does not work very well or at all on the MM/1 printer ports. Try a shorter cable and see what it does. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14214 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Feb-92 19:32:54 Sb: #14201-printers and mm/1's Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) hey, that could be it, I'm using a 10' cable at the moment, I'll try a 6' foot cable... but gee, it cant be that simple....nothing ever is... Ken #: 14202 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 08:58:35 Sb: #14195-printers and mm/1's Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken - Have you tried dragging it to a friend's house and hanging it off of a PC clone? That might clear or finger the printer. Pete #: 14196 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Feb-92 23:40:53 Sb: #Select Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling, 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, Is there a way to select the window a program is going to run in? You helped me out some time ago to do this on the coco; but now I want to do the same thing on the MM/1. I want to have a line like: (display 1b 21 ; /dd/games/mygame) <>>>/w so that the program starts in a new window and that window is displayed. Also, it'd be nice to return to the calling window when 'mygame' is finished. Thanks There is 1 Reply. #: 14210 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Feb-92 05:33:43 Sb: #14196-Select Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Hi Bob, Welllll :-), that's interesting. From a program, it's easy to do the 1B21 select, as the system will store away its input preference. Doing it from a command line turns out to be slightly more difficult... Partly because I check only for standard output's preference (I just changed this, thanks for the thought!), and that was because the OSK shell lacks the 6809 version's ">>/w" and have it pop to that window. The next line in a script file could be to winsel the original window.. executed when the program dies, of course. Let me know what happens. Thanks!! - kevin #: 14207 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Feb-92 21:51:39 Sb: MM/1 Update Module Fix Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: All To all MM/1 owners with the module update: Apparently a mistake was made in making the update archive and the wrong descriptors were included. A new set of descriptors are being made up now, but until then you should be able to get your new drivers working by changing one vale using the DMODE utility supplied in the archive. Use DMODE to change the rate byte to $30 for any high density disk except the hpcx IBM disk descriptors and $10 for all double (or low) density disks. This should correct the problem. Let me know if you still hahve trouble, Mark #: 14213 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Feb-92 18:18:21 Sb: MM/1 Update Module Fix Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, I was going to leave you a message about the problem I was having with the newest drivers. However, I just read msg. 14207 so I'll make the needed changes with dmode. Thanks for the support. Ernie. Press !> #: 14216 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Feb-92 09:59:06 Sb: #14198-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Thanks, Mike, for the explanation of the C Source Debugger. The book I have on it made it sound like quite a program, but was a little terse. Sounds like a great program; but for $850, I can do a heck of a lot of debugging on my own. :-) jim #: 14217 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Feb-92 10:03:47 Sb: #14198-#Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Generic Lint--> Yes, Mike, if you have or know where I could get a generic flavor of lint that is cheaper than the $400-$500 range from Gimpel, please let me know. Would seem like as popular as lint apparently is, that there'd be a pd version somewhere that would do some checking of the code. jim There is 1 Reply. #: 14220 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Feb-92 21:25:12 Sb: #14217-#Mshell Discount? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 Thing is that writing a lint program entails writing most of an optimizing C compiler--everything except the code generation part--since the data flow analysis one winds up doing is just what an optimizer wants to see to get rid of the apparently unnecessary calculations that lint gripes about as potential bugs! So...if someone has the urge to do it, go for it. It wouldn't take that much added effort to go ahead and write a C compiler. There is 1 Reply. #: 14224 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 11:18:53 Sb: #14220-Mshell Discount? Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: James Jones 76257,562 I've never used lint, but something I have never understood is why it exists at all. Why have a separate program that is essentially, as you stated, a compiler minus the code generation parts? Why not just have a compiler with a "don't generate code option"? This has always puzzled me. #: 14218 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Feb-92 18:09:55 Sb: MM/1 formatting Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, I tried changing the rates=$30 but got the same results. Error 247 until I dmoded sct and t0s=31. Then formats went fine. Thought you'dlike to know. Ernie. #: 14219 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Feb-92 21:21:19 Sb: #14212-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 I got a relatively inexpensive Honeywell keyboard from Midwest Micro Peripherals. People who have seen it have complained about the feel and about the on-keyboard artificial "click" sound it generates (which I have turned on), but it had the EXTREMELY important feature of being able to treat the key just left of the "A" as CTRL, which feature I think I can attribute what little grip on sanity I have left to. :-) #: 14221 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 00:17:56 Sb: #14210-#Select Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Glad I made the suggestion . Uh, I tried the little program, but no luck. Maybe it's the window version I'm running (#30), but it does nothing. Actaully, even from the command line a "display 1b 21 >/wx" just hangs things up until ctrl-c is hit. Certainly doesn't switch windows. This is not a big deal right now (but it would be nice for a little menu program I'd writing so my kids can play games....). But yes, it should be avail on the production model. There is 1 Reply. #: 14223 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 06:07:38 Sb: #14221-Select Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 Bob - when you do the "display 1b21 >/wx", is there a shell on /wx? Or another program waiting on input? Remember, the file manager locks out the device in that case (shell++ got around that by waiting on a key signal instead... another case where we need a new osk shell :-). kev #: 14226 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 14:13:58 Sb: MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: all welp, I tried a 6' cable like Mark suggested, and it helpped, but now all I get is a bunch of garbage... and things still go to sleep and never wake up again, and they dont die when you try to kill them either... anybody got any really great IDEAS? like witch xmode param's should be set to what? any Ideas on how to get a program to let go of /p so I can try changeing xmode things and try again? its a bit of a hassle to have to reboot to try something different... of well Ken. Press !> #: 14228 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 18:33:31 Sb: #14220-#Mshell Discount? Fm: John Semler 70324,633 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) An ANSI compatible C Compiler would be nicer! Is Microware the only vendor of C Compilers for the 68000 market? John Semler There are 2 Replies. #: 14232 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 21:39:42 Sb: #14228-#Mshell Discount? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: John Semler 70324,633 (X) I've only heard of the Gnu C compiler for as an alternative for OSK, but have never used it and would sure appreciate any comments on it. There are 2 Replies. #: 14246 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 19:16:15 Sb: #14232-Mshell Discount? Fm: John Semler 70324,633 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) Never used Gnu C for OSK but do have a political comment! I believe a bad aspect of distributing major piece of software like Gnu C for free is it stifles the market place. May be good for the home computer users but perhaps the commercial users will suffer because of FSF (lack of support, outdated technology, and etc). #: 14369 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Feb-92 20:43:51 Sb: #14232-#Mshell Discount? Fm: John Semler 70324,633 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) I downloaded both gpp (C++ compiler) and gcc (ANSI C) from Delphi and I can say that I am very impressed! Although I only had these compilers for the last 48 hours, I believe I will be using them from now on. Also gcc appears to generate tighter code than Microware C (Don't forget to throw on the optimizer using the -O option!). Installing gpp was a little troublesome. The routine perror() and _flsbuf() were missing from the C++ library. Also renamed libgpp.l to gpp.l (gpp.l looks like a subset of libgpp.l). Currently employing the gpp C++ compiler to implement computer science concepts encountered in my studies this semester! I'll leave a message on Delphi explaining the quirks that I have found so far. Someone should upload a copy to CIS. These are great compilers as far as I can see. John Semler There is 1 Reply. #: 14378 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Feb-92 13:19:29 Sb: #14369-Mshell Discount? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: John Semler 70324,633 (X) For folks with Internet ftp access, the hermit.cs.wisc.edu machine has the OSK Gnu C compiler also. #: 14261 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 09:55:36 Sb: #14228-#Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: John Semler 70324,633 (X) Up on Delphi, there is a C Compiler called the GCC Compiler. I've only used it a couple of times, but, according to the extensive help file included in the command, it supports the ANSI standard, including trigraphs, and has many features the stock MW C Compiler does not have. The modules, compressed, are about 650,000 bytes -- the largest module being over 425,000 bytes long. jim Sutemeier There are 2 Replies. #: 14310 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 22:27:30 Sb: #14261-#Mshell Discount? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Yes, it's my understanding that GCC is in fact the Gnu C Compiler. Was installation a big deal for GCC or not? There is 1 Reply. #: 14313 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Feb-92 09:56:38 Sb: #14310-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) >Was installation a big deal for GCC or not? Had no problem installing it, and it's fairly easy to use. Wish the dox file that came with it had the help screen in it, though. The dox are lacking in what-all this compiler can do, and the only true help is the '-?'. jim Sutemeier #: 14327 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 17:50:33 Sb: #14261-#Mshell Discount? Fm: John Semler 70324,633 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) The GCC compiler deal sounds good! How do I log on to Delphi? There is 1 Reply. #: 14335 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Feb-92 14:34:14 Sb: #14327-Mshell Discount? Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: John Semler 70324,633 (X) Delphi--> call voice 1-800-695-4005...... #: 14231 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 20:14:29 Sb: #14224-Mshell Discount? Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill - Lint is really a compiler superset, and is VERY picky. If you had to live with a compiler as nasty as Lint all the time, you'd go nuts. Pete #: 14236 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 23:00:47 Sb: #14224-Mshell Discount? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) The claim made by the folks who originally did lint was that the compiler shouldn't bother to tell you about questionable constructs, but should do what it's told and generate code for it even if it looks like a construct that may be bogus (semantically bogus, e.g. use a variable that may not have been set). OTOH, these days people expect compilers to do the kind of flow analysis lint does, though for other reasons, and ANSI prototypes allow some of the error checking that lint did, so there's less of an argument for a separate lint program. #: 14230 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 19:36:15 Sb: #14226-#MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) welp, did some more playing, the epson works fine on my cocoIII, got the xmode param's from the coco, and copyed them onto the mm/1. still no go... welp then I took the DMP110 from my coco and stuck it on the MM/1... used both sc68230 drivers (one at a time :-) and the dmp110 wouldn't print... so just witch printers do work with the MM/1???? bye Ken. There are 2 Replies. #: 14241 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 11:01:55 Sb: #14230-MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken, I'm having no problems with my Okidata 82a. Works like a champ. Steve #: 14247 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 21:27:50 Sb: #14230-MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) I'm using a DMP-430 with a long (10 or 12 ft) cable on my MM/1 - no problems. Maybe the following will help - [xmode /p] noupc nobsb bsl noecho lf null=0 nopause pag=66 bsp=08 del=18 eor=0D eof=1B reprint=04 dup=01 psc=17 abort=03 quit=05 bse=08 bell=07 type=00 baud=50 xon=11 xoff=13 tabc=09 tabs=4 [ident -qm scp68230] scp68230 owner 0.2 edition #5 good crc - E9A859 [ident -qm p] p owner 0.2 edition #5 good crc - 60BAFC JohnW #: 14277 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 06:19:18 Sb: #14226-#MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken, If you are getting garbage to the printer, it is possible that the printer port is bad or the little cable from the port to the DB-25 connector is bad. Either one is not easy to test for. About the only solution I can think of is to send the I/O board and the cables to me and I'll check it out. If you can find a person close by with an MM/1 and a printer that works, it would help eliminate some things. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14287 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 21:11:01 Sb: #14277-#MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) NO!!! I just got my I/O board! Im not just gonna give it up! its mine ! I waited long enough for it! you cant have it! but for what its worth, I got it to print... I swapped the p & p1 cable/connecter things.... and put jumpers on P5 (I think) the one for LF's (does that turn LF's off or on? it doesn't say in the docs)...and I started using the 3meg_init.... I dont know (or care) witch of those 3 things did the trick... but hey it works fine now... also, anybody know the $hex value of ESC? thanx for all the help everybody was... ---me There are 2 Replies. #: 14293 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 01:13:46 Sb: #14287-MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) ESC is Hex 1b decimal 27. #: 14300 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 08:54:52 Sb: #14287-MM/1's and Printers v2.3 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken - ESC = $1b Pete #: 14234 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Feb-92 22:35:02 Sb: #13973-#Ultra-Science Windows Fm: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) I have been working on 'screens' from TOP without much luck. Do you know someone who is running it on a tc70? I also want to get KD Windows but I understand Frank Hogg still needs to talk to you. Just got my tomcat a couple of weeks ago and I have had alot of trouble getting started. The docs are more reference not step by step tutorial. There is 1 Reply. #: 14262 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 10:05:31 Sb: #14234-Ultra-Science Windows Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: BRUCE MOORE 70075,143 I tried to get screens to work on my TC70 with no luck whatsoever. (???) If you have any luck, please let me know what you did to get it working. On another note, are you using the stock uq37c65, or did you switch over to the beta version?? jim Sutemeier #: 14238 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 06:55:16 Sb: #14219-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) James, I may have to call Midwest and order one of those keyboards. One of the reasons I like the Northgate keyboard is because of the ability to remap the keys. I have a CTRL key left of the "A" key and like it that way. I use Dynastar both on the CoCo and MM/1 and having the CTRL key there is very convenient. Ernie. #: 14248 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 21:41:53 Sb: #14219-#MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Speaking of ctrl-key placement! Just who was the idiot who decided that the ctrl key belonged at the bottom of the keyboard. As if we need to hit caps-lock a lot.... Is someone collecting a list of keyboards which do and don't work with the mm/1. Hmmm, I wonder why some don't! There are 2 Replies. #: 14256 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 06:56:10 Sb: #14248-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) My guess is that the idiot was someone who wanted a keyboard to look as much like a Selectric typewriter as possible. #: 14258 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 08:03:53 Sb: #14248-MM/1 I/O Board Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) I'm keeping track Bob. Seems that Northgate and Focus make boards that are not compatable with the MM/1. Mark theroizes something to do with timimg. I've seen a fix for the Northgate posted somewhere with less than stelllar results reported . Can't say about the focus. It's been sent back and a Chicony purchased in place. Steve #: 14240 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 10:58:32 Sb: #14218-#MM/1 formatting Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) Ernie, Could you post the complete dmode output for your descriptor? I'm using the new drivers without any problems and would like to compare. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14265 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 18:11:31 Sb: #14240-#MM/1 formatting Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Here's the dmode of /d1. I've tried it with rates=$30 but still get error 247 unless sct and t0s=31. name=d1 drv=1 stp=3 typ=$21 dns=$03 cyl=80 sid=2 vfy=0 (on) sct=33 t0s=33 sas=8 ilv=2 tfm=0 toffs=0 soffs=0 ssize=256 cntl=$0000 trys=7 lun=0 wpc=0 rwr=0 park=0 lsnoffs=0 totcyls=80 ctrlrid=0 rates=$00 scsiopt=$0000 maxcount=65535 Am I missing something obvious? This boot will read msdos diskettes using the /hpc1 descriptor by the way. I'm using modules from the update Mark uploaded. Any help will be much appreciated. Ernie. There is 1 Reply. #: 14268 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 21:17:35 Sb: #14265-#MM/1 formatting Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X) Ernie, I see by a later message, you're all fixed up. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14286 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 20:31:51 Sb: #14268-MM/1 formatting Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Yes. I think I've got everything working now. Haven't had time to try everything out yet though. Thanks. Ernie. #: 14249 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 21:42:11 Sb: #14223-#Select Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Yeah, I forgot all about the lockout problem. Haven't tried it with a non-interactive window. And if you switch windows to hit enter so that the block goes away, well it defeats the purpose of the command . Does the same thing happen when you do "(winsel;myprog)<>>>/w"? Since a shell is being forked to handle the stuff in the line, I guess things are blocked here too? It would be nice to have an elegant way to handle this. Hmmm, what about having a prog. open a path to /w, select the new window and then start a shell there with "myprog" as a parm? Might be a lot of shells being forked, but it should work. I just have to write a "open new window, select it and run a program in it" program. Opps, not that simple. I'd have to close stdin, etc. first so that the new program can use it's own paths. Hmmm, and then there is still the problem of returning to the original screen--esp. if the paths have been closed. Oh, guess they could be duped to higher numbers... will give this some thought, play and let you know. There is 1 Reply. #: 14252 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 00:22:49 Sb: #14249-#Select Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, The lockout comes from a program (like the shell) tieing up a device with a pending ReadLn. SCF locks the device so that someone else can't splat characters on top of whatever you're about to type in. Just forking a subshell with "()" doesn't cause a lockout, as it doesn't do any reads while working. But you're right, "(selwin;myprog)<>>>/w" doesn't work. That's because none of those paths are associated with the currently interactive window. It's easy to get around this when the shell (like the CoCo's) has "/term;mdir -e)<>>>/w The ">/term" is kinda like the CoCo's "/w8 Hit to confirm that the window was displaying; then back to /term. display 1b 21 >/w8 Nothing happened. There is 1 Reply. #: 14319 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 01:00:54 Sb: #14317-Select Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Right - we went over that a few messages ago. Try making up that winsel command instead. best, kev #: 14250 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 21:42:44 Sb: #drive rates Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Just thought I'd let you all know the results of some testing I've done with Carl's new floppy drivers for the mm/1. These tests were done with a Toshiba HD drive--I'd be interested in knowing if different drives give different results. First off, I've discovered that I can format 37 sectors and 84 tracks. This is probably pushing things, and is not something I recommend. Second, here are some speed tests (I'm just showing the fastest rate at different sect. counts): sects ilv k/sec 36 3 596 35-28 2 834 27 1 1043 (not consistant) 26 1 1390 The penalty for "turbo mode" seems to be pretty expensive. Now we just have to decide on a standard format for interchange! There are 2 Replies. #: 14257 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 07:00:04 Sb: #14250-#drive rates Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Hmmm...could you post dmode output for the various descriptors? I'm finding that I can't format /d0 using the new driver, even with the rates field changed. Thanks. There are 2 Replies. #: 14259 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 08:07:56 Sb: #14257-#drive rates Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) JJ, I'm using the new update drivers with out a problem. I've included mm1.d0 as my floppy descriptor with the following parameters: name=d0 drv=0 stp=3 typ=$27 dns=$03 cyl=80 sid=2 vfy=0 (on) sct=32 t0s=32 sas=8 ilv=2 tfm=0 toffs=0 soffs=0 ssize=256 cntl=$0000 trys=0 lun=0 wpc=0 rwr=0 park=0 lsnoffs=0 totcyls=80 ctrlrid=0 rates=$30 scsiopt=$0000 maxcount=65535 Hope this helps. Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 14266 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 18:50:53 Sb: #14259-drive rates Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, I just read your message to James and saw your dmode. I set typ=$27 and rates=$30. Now everything appears to work normally. I thought I had tried all the combinations for PD_TYP and PD_Rate on page 3-6 of the V2.4 Release Notes. No matter. It's working now. Thanks, Ernie. #: 14270 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 22:17:09 Sb: #14259-#drive rates Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Thanks, Steve. I'll check out what I'm using, and give the settings you list a try. There is 1 Reply. #: 14279 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 07:56:43 Sb: #14270-#drive rates Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Lemme know if it works. Those parameters seem to fix Ernie up. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14284 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 17:43:50 Sb: #14279-drive rates Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Tried changing type and rates, and it did indeed work. Thanks. #: 14318 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 00:05:20 Sb: #14257-#drive rates Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I see from later messages that you've gotten the dmodes you need. I did notice that type=$27. Hmmm, shouldn't that be $26 for a 3" floppy? There are 2 Replies. #: 14326 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 17:45:07 Sb: #14318-#drive rates Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) You may very well be right; I'd have to go look up the meanings of the bits. I think new descriptors are going to be uploaded shortly, so I won't sweat it. There is 1 Reply. #: 14331 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Feb-92 00:01:06 Sb: #14326-drive rates Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I'm pretty sure typ=$27 is done to make the driver think it's a 8" to get the 3ms step rate. And to let the driver also know that it's a 3.5" for formatting purposes. #: 14354 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Feb-92 22:07:50 Sb: #14318-drive rates Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Mike H. is pretty close. Type *should* be $26. But, due to the roms, that disk won't boot. If (and only if) you want it to boot, you have to add $01, the old 8" bit. This will (I am told) be corrected in a future release of the roms. I made all the distribution desctriptors that way to try to avoid billions and billions (sorry Carl) of people complaining that they couldn't get disks to boot. Wish I could type - desctriptors == descriptors. #: 14278 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 06:19:23 Sb: #14250-drive rates Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, Your speed tests look a little slow. A 1.43 Meg MM/1 type formatted disk should get around 15 Kbytes a second transfer (read and write). >Now we just have to decide on a standard format for interchange! Well, I'd suggest leaving the descriptors as thet come from IMS. That might be a good "standard". Mark #: 14251 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Feb-92 22:26:37 Sb: #14167-BASIC's INKEY Fm: Bob Palmer 74646,2156 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) AHA! that's where the 208 comes from. I must try it from the /term port and see what happens there. More than one way to skin a cat around here. Must admit though I am eagerly awaiting the VT100 version of the screen driver. ( not to mention certain windowing software ;-) ) Thanks - Bob. #: 14254 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 05:00:43 Sb: #14139-#Floppy Driver Fm: John Strong 72270,1555 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark where is the update archieves to be found? John Strong There is 1 Reply. #: 14255 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 06:45:43 Sb: #14254-Floppy Driver Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: John Strong 72270,1555 (X) Johm, The updates are not here. I removed them to make some corrections. They will be re-uploaded soon. Mark #: 14260 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 08:18:41 Sb: #handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: All AS I continue my shake out of the I/O board, I've run across a problem using my high speed PPI 9600 baud modem on /t3. Seems that unless I turn off the local hardware flow control (RTS/CTS), data isn't received. I can dial, make the connect, get all the nice info that tells me I have a MNP and v.42 connection. I can also see the xmit light flash on the modem, so data is getting through. Flipping thought the Tech manual (nice job, Mark!), I find info to the effect that hardware hand shaking isn't turned on. To do so, I need only to set the high bit on the 'type' parameter. Lessee .... it's '00' now, so that would make it $80, jes? Reading further, I'm also told there is not software to accomplish this task. Trying Xmode /t3 type=$80 confirms this. What's a newbie to do? Is there a way I can do what needs to be done? Am I even on the right track? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14263 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 13:22:30 Sb: #14260-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Setting type=$80 is the way to turn on hardware handshake. I used a binary file editor (bedt or ded or ??) but moded works too. I figured someone would crank out a little util to do it. The downside is you have to reboot after patching. There is 1 Reply. #: 14264 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 18:06:02 Sb: #14263-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) I found you can xmode /t3 type=80 (notice no hex sign) the save it out and verify it with fixmod or ded. I've the same set up as you. PM 9600SA and all. Works VERY well at 38.4 Kb. :-) Sure make uucp fly! There is 1 Reply. #: 14269 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 21:45:46 Sb: #14264-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I was able to use xmode as you suggested and saved it out, used fixmod and made a new boot. Still no luck. Everything is still as it was ... data going out, but nothing coming back. Which version of xmode are you using? The one that came on the distribution disks or the one with the update modules that was here for a few days? How do you have your modem set up? Anything special? Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 14273 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 02:04:50 Sb: #14269-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) The ident of my xmode util: Header for: xmode Module size: $21C2 #8642 Owner: 1.0 Module CRC: $98A4B1 Good CRC Header parity: $50CF Good parity Edition: $13 #19 Ty/La At/Rev $101 $C001 Permission: $555 -----e-r-e-r-e-r Exec off: $4E #78 Data size: $730 #1840 Stack size: $C00 #3072 Init. data off: $1E1C #7708 Data ref. off: $2100 #8448 Prog Mod, 68000 obj, Sharable, Sticky Module Output of /t3: noupc bsb bsl echo lf null=0 pause pag=24 bsp=08 del=18 eor=0D eof=1B reprint=04 dup=01 psc=17 abort=03 quit=05 bse=08 bell=07 type=80 baud=38400 xon=11 xoff=13 tabc=09 tabs=4 Hope this helps! There is 1 Reply. #: 14280 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 07:58:18 Sb: #14273-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Your xmode matches the one I'm using (from the update). I'll try your modem settings as well as upping the port speed to 38.4 as you have done and see what gives. Thanks! Steve #: 14274 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 02:05:26 Sb: #14269-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Here's how I set up the modem: Practical Paripherals PM9600SA with the following defaults AT &F &C1 &D3 S0=1 E0 L0 T Q2 &W Then to turn on error-correction and auto compression AT &Q5 I also got tired of listening to it dial in the middle of the night so AT M0 &W Here's the at&v profile: ACTIVE PROFILE: DTE:38400 DCE:9600 PARITY:NONE B16 B1 B41 B60 E1 L0 M0 N1 Q20 T V1 W1 X4 Y0 &C1 &D3 &K3 &Q6 &S0 &U0 &Y0 S00:002 S01:000 S02:043 S03:013 S04:010 S05:008 S06:002 S07:120 S08:002 S09:006 S10:014 S11:095 S12:050 S18:000 S25:005 S26:001 S30:000 S36:007 S37:009 S38:020 S43:006 S46:138 S48:007 S82:128 S86:000 S95:044 STORED PROFILE 0: B16 B1 B41 B60 E1 L0 M0 N1 Q2 T V1 W1 X4 Y0 &C1 &D3 &K3 &Q6 &S0 &U0 S00:002 S02:043 S06:002 S07:120 S08:002 S09:006 S10:014 S11:095 S12:050 S18:000 S25:005 S26:001 S36:007 S37:009 S38:020 S46:138 S48:007 S82:128 S95:044 STORED PROFILE 1: B16 B1 B41 B60 E1 L0 M0 N1 Q0 T V1 W0 X4 Y0 &C1 &D3 &K3 &Q5 &S0 &U0 S00:000 S02:043 S06:002 S07:050 S08:002 S09:006 S10:014 S11:095 S12:050 S18:000 S25:005 S26:001 S36:007 S37:000 S38:020 S46:138 S48:007 S82:128 S95:000 Ask if you have any Q's. There are 2 Replies. #: 14281 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 08:12:19 Sb: #14274-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Something's still amiss. I'll go over your modem parameter setting with a fine tooth comb when I get home from the office tonight. I may have someting out of wack there. Can you think of anything else that might be contributing to this problem? Did you happen to whip up a special cable perhaps? I have another paddle board that is wanting one more jumper. I'll dig one up at the office and try that board tonight, just incase it's related to that. Thanks for working with me! Steve #: 14288 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 21:13:15 Sb: #14274-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I've just finished installing /t4 (second paddle board) and find I have the same problems with that one as well. The thing does fine so long as hardware flow contrtol is off. (&K0) I'm in the process of matching your modem parameters and trying it again, but inthe meantime, could I get you to verify the position of the 8 jumpers on your paddle boards? Mine are as follows: ________ DB9 ______ P2 |||||||| P4 .||. Pretty sorry drawing ...but you get the idea, jes? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14291 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 01:12:32 Sb: #14288-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Well, your jumpers are on a little diff. Ok here's mine: P2 |||||||| All of 'em jumpered. P4 |:|: I guess it's P4 P3 :::: Ribbon cable to P9 on the board. I'm doing this from memory, but I just did the set up the day before yesterday. Pease had one on the other end of the phone and told me how to jumper it. Luck, - Mike - There are 2 Replies. #: 14296 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 06:31:35 Sb: #14291-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, The jumpers on P4 control the logic of RTS and DTR. The jumper is labeled as: 1 * * 2 3 * * 4 5 * * 6 7 * * 8 looking at the paddle board with the DB-9 to the left. Jumpering pins 1 and 2 allow RTS to toggle freely. Jumpers across 3 and 4 tie RTS high. Jumpering pins 5 and 6 allow DTR to toggle freely while jumpering 7 and 8 tie it high. Steve's problem is pins 3 and 4 are jumpered. The default settings on the paddle boards are for 3,4 and 5,6 to be jumpered. If he moves the jumper on 3,4 to 1,2, it should work. This is all explained in the tech manual. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14306 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 17:54:55 Sb: #14296-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Thanks for the help! Yup, Mine is jumpered the way you describe. I see he's got it going now. (yippie!) > This is all explained in the tech manual. Oh, the tech manual I have is an empty binder. ;-) #: 14298 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 08:25:59 Sb: #14291-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, We're cooking with gas now! Your pictures, coupled with Marks citation from the tech manual has me up and going with the PPI modem. Thanks! Now ... all I need to figure out is how to increase the xmit and rec buffer size in the appropriate descriptors. At 9600 baud, Sterm falls all over itself with the stock values. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14307 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 18:40:42 Sb: #14298-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Great! Guess I had the jumpers backwards. Sorry 'bout that. The way Mark said to jumper P4 is the way I have mine too. Have you copied the moded.fields file, that was in the update, to /DD/SYS? If so just do a "moded t3" to the descriptor on disk. It allows you to set the buffer sizes. With STerm and the PPI, just for fun try an at$h to list the modems AT menu. You'll see that Kev's character now maps to the old CoCo up line char. (Bummer) I've tried to get him to take it out. So if you to a write to the window, the $09 comes out as an up line command and if you do a writeln it's a . 'Course it makes sense to use write in a term program, right? (Pun Alert!) 'Cause write is the right way to write, right? (Baa-daa-ping!) When you figure out the optimal buffer sizes for Sterm and /t3 lemme know what sizes you ended up with. My input buffer size is 3840 and the output buffer is 32768? Seems quite incorrect to me! Lemme check to see If I have the latest /t3 descriptor.... Oops! My t3 is 8 bytes shorter than the latest. Better fix that right now. Input is 80 output is 140..... .. Ok put the new descriptor in. I set the input buffer to 4096. Works well for everything but CIS at 9600 bps. @ 9600 it still drops chars with STerm on CIS. Works fine on the local BBS's and with UUCP tho. (Ain't this fun!) There are 2 Replies. #: 14308 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 21:27:46 Sb: #14307-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Wow .... you're really up there with the buffer size. I was thinking hard to use 1024. I'll let you know what I finally end up with. Thanks for the pointer on the moded.fields file. Without manuals, I'm running blind. And I hate to keep asking Mark for every bit of advice. Back to the buffer size... I wonder how Carl setled on 80/140 as defaults. Or is he just carrying on a Microware tradition? Steve #: 14311 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Feb-92 07:01:59 Sb: #14307-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, >You'll see that Kev's character now maps to the old CoCo up line char. >(Bummer) I've tried to get him to take it out. So if you to a write to the >window, the $09 comes out as an up line command and if you do a writeln it's >a . 'Course it makes sense to use write in a term program, right? Yeah, I noticed with Sterm that stupid up cursor comes back because Sterm does use write() to write to the screen. I thought about putting writeln() in to fix it, but then I'd have to wait until a full line of text came in from the modem before writing to the screen. This would make the output look pretty jumpy if there were long lines in the data stream so I decided against it. Seems pretty stupid to me to have that up-cursor in there again. After years of listening to people complain about it you would think that Kevin would not have put it back in. Sometimes I wonder were that boy's mine is. Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 14320 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 01:01:41 Sb: #14311-#handshaking on /t3 Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Ummm, the 09=up was in there because of the people who originally wanted (and had specified at first) "CoCo compatibility". As for write() vs writeln()... learn some more. Writeln doesn't always mean "write until carriage return". It means "write with possible editing"... eg: change tabs to spaces for terminals which don't support tabs and/or if you want tabs to be a different spacing than what the terminal default is. Writeln works just like write if you specify fewer characters and turn off certain path options. RTM. Here's a program which should take any windio version and kill the 09=up code. Load it into basic, pack it, then chd to your boot module directory and make a copy of your old windio. Now call the program using the name of the windio file to modify, like "nulltab windio"... then make a new boot. Enjoy! PROCEDURE nulltab DIM f,filepos:INTEGER DIM b,bmi(2),nop(2):BYTE filepos=0 \ nop(1)=$4e\ nop(2)=$71 PARAM name$ OPEN #f,name$ LOOP GET #f,bmi filepos=filepos+2 IF bmi(1)=$6b AND bmi(2)=$04 THEN GET #f,bmi IF bmi(1)=$33 AND bmi(2)=$40 THEN PRINT USING "h4",filepos GOTO 100 ENDIF filepos=filepos+2 ENDIF ENDLOOP END 100 REM Replace 09 code with nop's SEEK #f,filepos PUT #f,nop PUT #f,nop CLOSE #f SHELL "fixmod -u "+name$ END There are 2 Replies. #: 14323 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 12:00:58 Sb: #14320-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Neat Kev! I made the patch, what a difference. Is there a way to patch it to jump the routine that converts 09's to the writeln 09 routine? Thanks, - Mike - #: 14338 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Feb-92 06:04:50 Sb: #14320-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, >Ummm, the 09=up was in there because of the people who originally wanted >(and had specified at first) "CoCo compatibility". Good answer Kev. Did you keep all the other bugs in there too so everyone would feel "at home" (grin). Mark #: 14322 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 12:00:11 Sb: #14311-handshaking on /t3 Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Sterm isn't the only com program that uses write. So does uWare's Com. I wonder if Vaughn Cato's does the same? Even Kermit uses write! - Mike - #: 14267 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Feb-92 21:00:36 Sb: #MM/1 getstat & setstat Fm: John Strong 72270,1555 To: Kevin Darling Where can I get information on the get & set status call for the MM/1? Assembly language please. John Strong There is 1 Reply. #: 14275 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 02:25:01 Sb: #14267-#MM/1 getstat & setstat Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: John Strong 72270,1555 (X) John, You can find all that in the OS-9 system manuals that come with you OSK box. There is a whole section on OS-9 system calls. If you don't have your manuals yet, I can help you on some of them. Any calls you have in mind? - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 14289 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 22:54:36 Sb: #14275-#MM/1 getstat & setstat Fm: John Strong 72270,1555 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, no manuals yet! I need the screen/window related calls. I program primaryly in assembly. Will try C when my I/O board arrives & I have the Hard drive running. thanks in advance for any and all help. John R. Strong There is 1 Reply. #: 14292 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 01:13:11 Sb: #14289-#MM/1 getstat & setstat Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: John Strong 72270,1555 (X) John, If you can call the c library from asm you should be able to use the CGFX.L here in Lib 12. The docs are up there also. If you can't use the library, I'm pretty sure someone had uploaded a util that told the display codes for the CoCo 3 in DL 10. One was called displa.txt and the other helpwn.b09. Any specific codes you need? This list is quite extensive. There is 1 Reply. #: 14309 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 22:03:37 Sb: #14292-MM/1 getstat & setstat Fm: John Strong 72270,1555 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I know the Coco 3 display codes. Without the Osk Manuals, I have no idea on how to call a C library function. What I need is the down and dirty (grin) details on using such get/set status calls as SS.Palet gs.address , etc. from assembly. register usage , data stuctures (SS.Mouse) and the like. I can't start to port any of my games to OSK with this info. Screen layout info would also be handy, as well as more info on SS.Play & SS.Tone. any and all info would be appreciated. I can hardly to get my games running on the MM/1. (Soviet Bloc & Gems) John Strong #: 14272 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 00:25:49 Sb: #Of mice & MM/1's Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev; Finally got my I/O board last week and got the HD populated -- this is *great*! What a personality change it makes in the MM/1!! I'm having a bit of trouble getting a mouse to work tho, and could use a hint or two. ;-) I've got ms and ms901 (ms68901) in memory, stdpats_16 & _256 merged via startup, but I never see a mouse pointer. Tried both a Mouse Systems trackball and a Logictech mouse on /t2 (they both work on a PC). Logictech is completely dead - movement = null, buttons = null. Mouse says on bottom 'Microsoft compatible'. Mouse Systems - buttons = null, trackball = window change. M/S is supposed to be 'Logictech compatible'. What am I missing? Should I have /t2 in the boot? TIA, ...Jim p.s. For anyone looking for an audio cable for their MM/1, most stereo dealers carry a cable made for Euro cassette decks to amp input made by RECOTON - p/n AC409 for about $3.69 or so. There is 1 Reply. #: 14276 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 02:25:39 Sb: #14272-#Of mice & MM/1's Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Jim, Do you have ms68901 or ms901? They are different drivers. Make sure the baud rate in /ms is set to 1200. And dump /ms to see which driver it wants. (Should be at the end of the module). The driver and descriptor has to be Gen'd into the boot or it wont work. Also you'll need to leave /T2 OUT of the bootfile. The patterns should not affect the mouse at all. I'm running a LogiTech 3 button mouse here, Model No: CC-93-DF. (I can't remember what the box said, I use to use it on the CoCo) Let us know how it turns out. If you don't get a pointer after doing the above. Post the Idents of the modules and the xmode to /ms for me. - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 14295 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 06:14:09 Sb: #14276-#Of mice & MM/1's Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike; Thanks for the quick reply. About the only thing that I hadn't checked was the baud rate for /ms, but it was O.K. >Do you have ms68901 or ms901? They are different drivers. Hmm, the bootlist calls for ms68901, but ms901 is the one that shows up in an MDIR. There is no ms901 in the bootmods/win directory. A dump shows both to be identical, at least on screen. Header for: ms Module size: $78 #120 Owner: 0.1 Module CRC: $A4F4E0 Good CRC Header parity: $3F5B Good parity Edition: $5 #5 Ty/La At/Rev $F00 $8000 Permission: $555 -----e-r-e-r-e-r Dev Descr, Sharable Header for: ms901 Module size: $2C8 #712 Owner: 0.0 Module CRC: $78AEE2 Good CRC Header parity: $1E22 Good parity Edition: $2 #2 Ty/La At/Rev $E01 $A000 Permission: $555 -----e-r-e-r-e-r Dev Drv, 68000 obj, Sharable, System State Process /ms noupc bsb bsl noecho lf null=0 nopause pag=24 bsp=08 del=18 eor=0D eof=1B reprint=04 dup=01 psc=17 abort=00 quit=00 bse=08 bell=07 type=00 baud=1200 xon=11 xoff=13 tabc=09 tabs=4 T2 is NOT in the bootlist, per the instructions in the User's Guide. I'm beginning to think that the Mouse Systems TR-305 is a non-compatible one, although I thought Mike Knudsen was using one. Thanks, ...Jim There is 1 Reply. #: 14305 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 17:54:06 Sb: #14295-Of mice & MM/1's Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Jim, You have the same modules as mine. Hmmmm. Execpt my ms901 was patched to give me full access to the hi-res overscan screens. Xmode is the same on the discriptor too. Only suggestion at this point is to borrow a mouse that is known to be Logitech compatible. #: 14283 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 17:37:48 Sb: #'C' help Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all does someone have a 'C' program segment that shows an example of how to read directory entries and file sizes. There is 1 Reply. #: 14285 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Feb-92 18:55:21 Sb: #14283-#'C' help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott - Look at the files.ar source in DL9. It's fairly simple though: 1) Open directory of choice for DIR+READ 2) Scan entries at 32 bytes each (29 name; 3 LSN of FD Sector) 3) When you find the name you want, get the LSN for its FD Sector 4) Open the WHOLE disk (i.e. /d1@, /dd@), and seek & read that sector number. Extract the file's size from here. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 14294 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 04:51:29 Sb: #14285-#'C' help Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) I could not find the files.ar in Lib 9. seems pretty straightfoward though There is 1 Reply. #: 14301 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Feb-92 08:59:18 Sb: #14294-#'C' help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott - You may also want to see if HDKALL.AR has it in there (Dl9). Mike Ward may have FILES.AR offline in an archive. Drop him a note at 76703,2013. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 14324 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 15:35:29 Sb: #14301-#'C' help Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Nope, no FILES.AR in ANY of my offline archives. There is 1 Reply. #: 14325 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Feb-92 16:04:02 Sb: #14324-#'C' help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mike Ward 76703,2013 (X) Bummer... I hope I included it in HDKALL in that case. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 14330 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Feb-92 00:00:41 Sb: #14325-#'C' help Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) If I remember right, you wanted to keep tighter control on HDKIT so you had 'em remove the source and you uploaded an AR of the executables only. There is 1 Reply. #: 14347 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Feb-92 10:43:24 Sb: #14330-'C' help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike - Not to my knowledge, but then I am getting old. In fact, I thought HDKALL was a full posting of all sources, since I was getting rid of the Gimix, and wanted other folks to be able to munge it if they wanted. Pete #: 14336 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Feb-92 14:58:43 Sb: 'c' and Microware basic Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all Is there a way to link 'c' sub-routines to Microware basic in OS9 68K? I know under LvlI/II you could link with the '-b' option while linking it, but the 'l68' module does not provide that option. #: 14355 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Feb-92 22:49:24 Sb: #Welcome Aboard Fm: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 To: John Strong 72270,1555 (X) John, Glad to see you on CIS. You can get my name/ID from this message. Happy MM1 programming. Bill Healton There is 1 Reply. #: 14395 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 21:18:34 Sb: #14355-Welcome Aboard Fm: John Strong 72270,1555 To: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 Thanks Bill. got a 2nd drive form Lyben & it works fine, however it is noiser than the orginal. I may be getting another ST & a Monochrome monitor from my brother in Denver. HMM... John Strong #: 14382 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Feb-92 09:55:29 Sb: archiving methods Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all Last night, I uploaded to DL12 a study I just did of 4 compression/ archiving commands for OSK. I thought this would be helpful to all when choosing an archive method to get the most out of your transmissions..... Enjoy! jim Sutemeier #: 14390 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Feb-92 23:09:19 Sb: GNU C Compiler Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: all Good news for you OSK C people. I've obtained permission to upload the GNU C++ Compiler to this SIG, and will upload it here soon. (as soon as I have all of it downloaded from the 'other' service!!) It'll be really great of an addition to your C libraries. jim Sutemeier Sirius Software #: 14392 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 08:37:11 Sb: #/P ports Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve; Thanks for the info on the /P ports - I'll be ordering the Tech Manual RSN I guess. Have you heard of anyone doing anything with the I**C interface yet? I read an interesting news blurb the other day about a breakout card being developed by (I think) DEC and Phillips specifically for the I**C. Will bring the info home and post if there's any interest. re: Artec mouse Fry's Electronics and CompUsa both carry them for around $15 - one of the benefits of living here in 'hi-tech wonderland' - lots of price competition. ...Jim There are 2 Replies. #: 14393 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 19:36:15 Sb: #14392-/P ports Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 Thanks for the the information on the mouse. Is this the one that that has the scaleable resolution button on the side? Two button? Three button? Steve #: 14394 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 19:40:08 Sb: #14392-/P ports Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 Jim, The only stuff I've seen on the I2C buss has been in the Tech manual. Mark's included a page of device and part numbers. Interesting reading. If you find out anything else, I'd be interested in seeing it. #: 14396 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 21:31:40 Sb: #upload space Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: [F] Wayne Day 76703,376 Wayne....I am preparing to upload the cmds for the C++ Compiler, but the sign tells me that it's out of space for uploading. Could you take care of this? Thanks. jim Sutemeier There is 1 Reply. #: 14397 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Feb-92 22:04:18 Sb: #14396-upload space Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 Jim, I've squeezed a bit more space for you into the libs. Can you give us some idea of the size of the upload(s) you have planned? #: 14399 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Feb-92 10:35:47 Sb: #14397-#upload space Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Mike Ward 76703,2013 (X) size of uploads--> Mike, the cmds for the C++ Compiler take up 690,000 bytes (compressed). (The main module for this compiler is 849,000 bytes, uncompressed!) I had also intended on uploading a GCC compiler, which is ANSI compatible. It is smaller in size than the C++ Compiler, should only be about 750-800,000 bytes total for that set. When I started the uploading, wasn't aware that there were any space probs here on CI$. I'll try to get the C++ cmds in now, please advise me on the ANSI compiler. Thanks. jim Sutemeier There is 1 Reply. #: 14436 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Feb-92 00:13:50 Sb: #14399-upload space Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) Jim, I've made a little bit more space available, so if you run into problems again, please let us know. There aren't really any space problems here on CompuServe..... just a problem with us not always erasing the files that folks are no longer accessing. Houskeeping chores, ya know. Wayne #: 14404 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Feb-92 23:24:00 Sb: #14390-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) I already snarfed it from the InterNet. It is great. It would be nice if it generated srcdbg compatable debug info though... While I can survive with printf()s (err cout <<'s), it would be nice to be able to use the debugger... Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 14405 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Feb-92 00:02:19 Sb: #14404-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) I haven't gotten much further than to start listing out the defs files, myself. But, 'cause I ALWAYS try something out before reading the dox (grin), I simply HAD to run a test comparison between the MW Compiler and this GNU C++ Compiler, as it will 'try to imitate traditional C'. I compiled a program of 27,375 bytes first with the MW compiler...it took 2:14 minutes, final outfile was 23,428 bytes. Using GNU 1.40, it took 2:21 minutes, and, using the -O (for optimizer) option, the final outfile was 22,806 bytes. That really impressed the heck out of me. Over 600 bytes optimized out, on a compiler that says it will "TRY" to compile it. Now, I gotta go buy some books on C++, so I can start to learn that implementation of C. Have fun! jim Sutemeier There is 1 Reply. #: 14425 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Feb-92 20:49:55 Sb: #14405-#GNU C Compiler Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X) I tried to recompile a few of my programs (Ved and Vprint) and found that the code actually increased in size a little. Guess it depends on what's going on. But you're correct--they are very nice offerings. Not sure if I'm going to get into C++ or not. Oh, are the doc files you uploaded for the C++ or C compiler? There is 1 Reply. #: 14429 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Feb-92 15:32:15 Sb: #14425-GNU C Compiler Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) dox files for C Compiler--> Bob, I uploaded two different compilers from GNU, the ANSI C Compiler and the C++ C Compiler. The ANSI C Compiler is complete and intact, just as it sits (all dox and cmds are in the same archive.) The C++ Compiler, on the other hand, are so extensive (and VERY long) that I left those in idividual archives in the database. So, the DOX 1 & 2 belong to the C++ Compiler, as does the lfiles, defs, and gnu cmds. I haven't decided if I want to tackle C++ myself.....yet.....but I LIKE the option of being able to do so if I want to. Take care. jim Sutemeier #: 14408 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Feb-92 09:00:34 Sb: #14393-/P ports Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve; No resolution switch, but it does have a PC/MS switch on the bottom and it is 3 button - model AM25. ...Jim #: 14424 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Feb-92 16:14:32 Sb: G-WINDOWS Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: ALL To all - G-WINDOWS for the SYSTEM IV computer is released and available for immediate shipment. All orders we have received were shipped today. Owners of SYSTEM IV computers or computers using the PT68K4 board, call for a free demo copy of the G-WINDOWS and G-VIEW. For more information, see upload G-WINDOWS INFO in the library. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO 302-378-2555 #: 14438 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Feb-92 02:04:25 Sb: #MM/1 stereo Fm: Ken Gideon 72270,664 To: all welp, another stupid question bout my MM/1, I've tried Mike K.'s recplays program, works fine, sept when I plug in my stereo to the audio in of the MM/1, the MM/1 is grounding out my stereo, whitch makes the recordings sound like crap... I tested the cable and its not shorted, also all the wires are going to the right place (that tends to help)... so just for kicks I measured the resistance between the audio in signal pin, and the audio in ground... both channels were about 620 ohms... since they were both about the same, I dont think anything is fried or anything like that... but only 620 ohms? shouldn't it be more? thats a real load for my amp, and it cant take it... is that normal though? would puting a op amp betwwen the stereo amp and the MM/1 (with an Av of 1) help? them little suckers have a high Z in...(or hay, even an Av of 100,000... amplify the **** outa it :-) oh well, anyone got any Ideas? Ken or Cosmic@SandV or something, some where on INTERNET (or is it bitnet? I forget...) or you can get me on the Coco listserv... or or or There is 1 Reply. #: 14442 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Feb-92 10:17:18 Sb: #14438-MM/1 stereo Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Ken Gideon 72270,664 (X) Ken, If it helps, I think R2 and R6 back by the connector are the resistors to ground on the sound input (600 ohms each). R1 and R5 (100 ohms) are in series, respectively. kev #: 14456 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Mar-92 22:12:03 Sb: #C help Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all I'm not sure if what I'm trying to do is possible, but it should be . Maybe someone with a bit more C-knowledge can help... I want to get the size of one element of a structure. Problem is that I don't have an actual structure to work on, just a pointer or typedef. Assuming typedef struct{ char a1[40]; int i1[10]; }foo; What I'd like to do is this: int t=sizeof(foo.a1); Which should set t==40. I just get an error. I tried it without the typedef and used sizeof(struct foo.a1) but got the same problem. If you actually create storage, things work fine: foo dummy; int t=dummy.a1; I've worked around this by using #define ASIZE 40 and then using this to set the size in the struct. But there should be a way to do it my way! Any ideas? There is 1 Reply. #: 14458 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Mar-92 07:25:30 Sb: #14456-#C help Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Maybe there should be, but there isn't. Look again at the permissible operands of sizeof: you can either have an expression, or a type. foo.a1 is neither. The nearest you can come to what you want is to use yet another typedef for the type of the structure member; then you can hand sizeof *that* type. There is 1 Reply. #: 14479 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Mar-92 00:36:41 Sb: #14458-C help Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Well, I was hoping I'd missed something in the sizeof() operand specs. Too bad I didn't -- always worth asking. But using a typedef to define the structure member is a neat trick. Thanks. #: 14514 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Mar-92 19:09:26 Sb: #CD-ROM Modules?? Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: All Help, Does any one know of/are writing drivers/descriptors for use with a SCSI CD-ROM drive on a 3 Meg MM/1? Keith There are 2 Replies. #: 14523 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 08:04:29 Sb: #14514-CD-ROM Modules?? Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, As far as I know, no one is writing any drivers for CD-ROMs. The problem is getting the drive manufacturers and especially the CD-ROM makers to release the specifications on how it is done without paying them large sums of money. If you can do this, then please do and let us know. It is just like when I decided to do UUCP for the CoCo. There were no specifications written down anywhere. There are now after several people got together and reverse engineered it which is more or less when I had to do with the help of some already existing source code. Mark #: 14530 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 13:02:19 Sb: #14514-CD-ROM Modules?? Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, Mostly, you'd need an ISO-9660 file manager. I'd guess that MW has one, but I don't know the price or availability. Alternatively, someone could write one, but I don't know anyone capable of it right now. Check around on nets/BBSs tho... there may be some Unix C source for such things, or at least rough readers. thx! - kev #: 14515 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Mar-92 19:42:33 Sb: #Focus 3001 Keyboard Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: 76703,4255 (X) Steve I have a FOCUS 3001 keyboard with the two DIPS set as follows: 1 = ON 2 = OFF Sometimes when I turn on the MM/1 the following lights come on and then go off Caps Lock Num Lock Scroll Lock if these lights do not come on and then go back off the keyboard will not execpt UPPERCASE letters by using the SHIFT key. Is their a way to fix this problem?? I paid 60+ bucks for this (Second) keyboard. The first one did the same problem but only cost me $20 HELP Does the keyboard need modifided??? Keith There are 2 Replies. #: 14520 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 06:42:37 Sb: #14515-#Focus 3001 Keyboard Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) I'd kinda hate to reboot just to make sure, but I think my keyboard flashes those LEDs at powerup, too. Doesn't seem to affect its operation. There is 1 Reply. #: 14521 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 08:02:04 Sb: #14520-Focus 3001 Keyboard Fm: Keith H. March 70541,1413 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) James If they (the leds) do not come on then I can not get the SHIFT keys to work. They have to come on and then go back off. It did it Ii'Za few minutes ago, I have to turn the MM/1 off wait a few seconds and then try again, it worked the second time. Keith #: 14526 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 11:50:34 Sb: #14515-Focus 3001 Keyboard Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Keith H. March 70541,1413 (X) Keith, I had no luck with the FOCUS keyboard I bought for my MM/1. Worked just fine on the PC's at the office, but no go on the MM/1. Returned it for a Chicony 5191 and have been very pleased. Steve #: 14527 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Mar-92 12:19:25 Sb: #14246-Mshell Discount? Fm: edward gow 71670,3274 To: John Semler 70324,633 The GNU C compiler has not stifled the marketplace. On the contrary, it has done much to improve it. First, the Microware C compiler is the one with outdated technology and lack of support - look at the K&R Microware offering vs. GNUs ANSI, not to mention GNU C++. Also compare bugs in GCC against Microware C and see who loses! Second, look at what GCC has done for companies in the marketplace - Next, Wind River, and next DEC (with Wind River) all use it as their standard compiler. This way they don't have to waste their resources creating and supporting what will likely be an inferior C compiler. Instead they can apply their effort to generating customer features, such as POSIX functionality. Note the lack of POSIX offerings from Microware. Note also that Wind River uses GDB as the debugger for VxWorks and thus provides it for free while Microware wants $850 for its source debugger. GNU software is a boon both to individual users and to the industry at large. Microware will learn their lesson the hard way as OSK systems in the hands of home users lead to the porting ond development of replacements for all but the kernel of OS-9/68000. Then ALL anyone will buy from them is an industrial license at $29 per system. Even in Des Moines you can't live on that. #: 14539 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Mar-92 19:19:03 Sb: #MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kev 76703,4227 (X) Kev, I've been tracking down a problem with my MM/1 and it leads me suspiciously toward either the windowing software and or tsmon. I've got a 3meg MM/1 with 5 serial ports, tho /t2, /t3 and /t4 are all that are in use at the moment. /t2 is a local terminal while /t4 is set up to be my dial in. (tsmon /t4&). Within a 24 hour period, /term and /w1 will have locked up. /t2 is still fully functional. Rebooting has been the only way out of this fix. Sometimes, with /term and /w1 locked up, /t2 will demonstrate what I've named the 'just one off' effect. For example, if I wanted to issue the 'dir' command, pressing the 'd' would net no echo. Pressing the 'i' would net a 'd' echo,. Pressing the 'r' would net the 'i' echo. Hitting would complete the command and again to execute. Any thoughts on what's going on? I've taken to just running a shell on /t2 rather than using tsmon to see if that makes any difference. (By the way, using mtsmon doesn't make any difference. The same things happen.) I'm using version 30 of wcf and windio but the same problems appeared with 22. I've also noted unexpected values for xon and xoff in the window descriptors. WHat's behind $0F and $02. CHanging them to 00 has caused an interesting result at boot. Black border, black background, black type and a white cursor. Blindly using the color command sets things right but it's still got me wondering. (Thought the xon/xoff parameters might be related to the locked probelms). Anything you can suggest would be appreciated. Steve #: 14540 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Mar-92 19:21:12 Sb: TOP mmon Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed 76576,3312 Ed, Have you been able to get the TOP mmon package working? I've spent a few hours with it this weekend without much luck. Any pointers? Steve Press !> #: 14542 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Mar-92 21:11:08 Sb: #14539-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Is anything being printed to /term and /w1 from tsmon during this time? If not, I don't see how the window driver can be related... but stranger things have happened with drivers, I guess. Even more suspicious is that your (shell?) on the tsmon'd /t2 sometimes begins to echo weirdly. So yah, please let me know what happens with just the shell on there. Hmmm. /T2? Do you have ms and the mouse driver in place by any chance? That is, is windio trying to also use /t2 as the mouse port? No telling what kind of wacko troubles that could cause :-) Re: window descriptors. I did like Hazelwood and most others: took the quick way out for now, and used the XOn/XOff values to mean default fore/back colors. And the Type is the window type, and Baud is actually set to the window number. Later, I'll add CoCo-like extra descriptor spots for size, type, and so forth. But it's low on the priority list, of course. best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14549 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 07:54:00 Sb: #14542-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, I've got the mouse stuff commented out currently in my bootlist file since I'm not using it unitl I get all my serial ports running. So, hopefully that's not the problem. Nothing is being echoed visably to /term. Weird. Thanks for the info on the xon/xoff values. Makes sense now .... and I'll change 'em back. Black isn't my color! :-) I'll keep you posted on any development. Thanks for the assist! Maybe this will all go away with the new version, eh? :-) Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14554 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 14:46:36 Sb: #14549-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, you could also boot up with no window stuff at all... just running off the serial ports... and see what happens. BTW, check your Init module. Is your irq stack set pretty high? I think most of us now set it to well over 1000... I'm using 4096, for instance, which is probably ridiculously high, but with multiple interrupts possible at one time, it prevents oddball problems. kev There are 3 Replies. #: 14557 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 22:09:00 Sb: #14554-MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Two good ideas, Kev. I'll diddle some more and let you know what I find. Steve #: 14558 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 22:20:00 Sb: #14554-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Update: Just moded my init module. The IRQ stack was set to 512. I've bumped it up to the same 4096 you're using. Now .... can you tell me what I just did? :-) Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14559 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 22:43:00 Sb: #14558-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Oooooo... 512 was probably too low. You were setting the amount of stack space usable during interrupts. With a half-dozen interrupt level inputs, and more demanding interrupt routines, it helps to have enough breathing space for the system stack. Otherwise it might overwrite something critical. I suspect you'll be in better shape now. This is one of those "minor" details that isn't too obvious or mentioned often... and it causes especially hard to pin down problems which are usually blamed on everything else but :-) Luck! There is 1 Reply. #: 14560 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 22:49:49 Sb: #14559-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Great! Now wouldn't it just be great news if this fixed things right up? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14561 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Mar-92 22:57:28 Sb: #14560-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Yah, it'd be great if it fixed your problems! But you know Murphy... :^) There is 1 Reply. #: 14565 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Mar-92 07:41:07 Sb: #14561-MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Yeah .... Murphy and I are well aquainted. We're at day 20 of a four day project to install an update to Oracle Case tools at the office on our SUN. Talk about a poor product ..... Steve #: 14573 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Mar-92 21:19:31 Sb: #14554-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, Just reporting in sir .... Lock up's continue with the IRQ stack upped. The shell on /t2 was still functional, but soon when to hell in a hand basket with the one-off problem previously described. I'm pondering my next approach. It will either be yanking the windowing stuff and running off the terminals as suggested earlier, or ditching tsmon and installing mmon (if Ed come through with the tips). Frustrating? Yeah .... but not as bad as work! ;-( Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14574 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Mar-92 21:50:06 Sb: #14573-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Yah, it's all part of the hobby :-) Just keep telling yourself that! I'd say to run without the windowing stuff first (since you have terminals hooked up, right? and because the diff should be visible fairly quickly). Luck again! - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14576 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Mar-92 07:07:01 Sb: #14574-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Now here's something that appears to be interesting : Id PId Grp.Usr Prior MemSiz Sig S CPU Time Age Module & I/O 2 0 0.0 128 0.50k 0 w 0.10 9:29 sysgo <>>>term 3 2 0.0 128 6.75k 0 s 3:28.62 9:29 shell <>>>term 4 0 0.0 128 6.75k 0 w 0.08 9:29 shell <>>>w1 5 4 0.0 128 6.75k 0 s 0.02 9:29 shell <>>>w1 6 0 0.0 128 6.75k 0 w 1.81 9:29 shell <>>>t2 7 0 0.0 128 9.50k 0 s 0.02 9:29 tsmon <>>>t4 8 6 0.0 128 18.00k 0 * 0.14 0:00 procs <>>t2 >dd This procs was taken this morning. The system has been up only 9:29 hours and look at the CPU time for the shell on /term. Looks to me to be way out of line. It's just sitting there doing nothing .... why's it breathing so hard? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14578 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Mar-92 18:15:49 Sb: #14576-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Your CPU Time for shell on /term shows 3 minutes, 28.62 seconds. Doesn't seem very much out of line to me. The Age is in hours:minutes. CPU Time is hrs:minutes:seconds.hundredths. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14600 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Mar-92 09:55:43 Sb: #14578-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, This thing gets truely weird. I have eliminated all references to tsmon, any version, and haven't had a lock up since. I'll be yanking the windowing stuff today and booting straight to terminal, re-install the tsmon on the modem port and see what happens. I realize the amount of CPU time displayed on /term's shell is a reasonable value in and of itself. The point I wanted to make was given the _nothing_ was executing on the shell save for the echo's from the startup file, and all activity for the 9 1/2 hours had been done on /t2's shell, the porportional difference between the two appeared to be significant. Another example from last night's session follows: Id PId Grp.Usr Prior MemSiz Sig S CPU Time Age Module & I/O 2 0 0.0 128 0.50k 0 w 0.09 13:37 sysgo <>>>term 3 4 0.0 128 6.75k 0 s 8.80 13:37 shell <>>>w1 4 0 0.0 128 6.75k 0 w 0.09 13:37 shell <>>>w1 5 2 0.0 128 6.75k 0 s 4:00.33 13:37 shell <>>>term 6 0 0.0 128 6.75k 0 w 5.80 13:37 shell <>>>t2 7 6 0.0 128 18.00k 0 * 0.12 0:00 procs <>>t2 >dd As you can see, the shell on /term is crunching numbers big time, while the shell on /t2 (where I was doing all my work) is fairly modest. Further, even comparing the CPU time on the idle window (ID #3) which is brought up at boot and just sitting there, to my active session on /t2 (ID #6) it would appear that shells associated with the windowing stuff tend to get real busy. Using Mark's nifty tool, Sysmon, which further breaks down CPU time into Total CPU Time, System State, and User State, I see that only .05 of the time spent on /term's shell is related to User activity. The rest being allocated in the System State column. I'll keep after this and let you know what I find. Thanks for the help! Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14606 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Mar-92 06:50:50 Sb: #14600-#MM/1 help Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, Ooops and thanks! :-) Turns out there was a piece of code in the vertical interrupt routine left over from a super old statcall which was meant to wait for screen swaps. All it's doing (in this case) is waking up the idle shell waiting on keyboard input in the visible window, and then putting him right back to sleep again... nothing serious... but that's definitely what's causing the creeping cpu time reports. Dunno if it would cause tsmon problems, but might. Let's fix it and see. Using debug or ded, search for the sequence 2F0A4AAD in windio. You should find it around offset $2118 in ver 30; the entire sequence we want is: 2F0A 4AAD0008 6716. That code means "move.l a2,-(sp)"... "tst.l 8(a5)"... "beq.s NoWake". Just change the 67 to 60 (branch if equal -> branch always). Then save the changed module, reverify it, and make a new bootfile. BTW, to do this in debug, just call up the command (type "debug"). Then, dbg: l windio (link to windio) dbg: msl .r7 .r7+5000 2f0a4aad (mem search from start to start+$5000) That'll bring up a line something like: 0x00002118+r7 - 2F0A4AAD 00086716 246D0008 302A0008 The address on the left is close to the one we want... we can see the 67 up in the data shown on the right. So then we change it: dbg: c 2118+.r7 Debug will then show the first byte (2F), and we can hit ENTER until we're over the 67, at which time you enter 60 to change that byte. On the next one we enter "." to get out of the change mode, then enter "q" to quit. It's really kinda like 6809 debug, except that the fake .r7 register points by default to the module we've last linked to. best - kevin There is 1 Reply. #: 14607 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Mar-92 14:20:24 Sb: #14606-#MM/1 help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev, Here's