#: 13863 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 06-Jan-92 05:17:47 Sb: OS-9 Community Network Fm: Robert R MacKay 100036,676 To: John Wight 76370,2100 To Mr John Wight, I have recently read the OS-9 community newsletter with much interest. I am a current member of the Australin OS-9 Users #: 13864 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 06-Jan-92 05:59:29 Sb: OS-9 Community Network Fm: Robert R MacKay 100036,676 To: John Wight 76370,2100 John, I have read with interest the first newsletter of the new OS-9 community. I am a current member of the Australian OS-9 Users Group. I would be most interested in an active association with this new venture. I can be contacted via CIS 100036,676 which is Compuserve Pacific, or on voice +61 7 8073802 evenings. Regards, and good luck. Rob MacKay, 7 Harburg Drive, Beenleigh, Queensland, 4207. Australia. #: 13960 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 11-Jan-92 21:57:48 Sb: #13864-OS-9 Community Network Fm: John Wight 76370,2100 To: Robert R MacKay 100036,676 (X) Thanks for the information. My plans were to contact you in Australia by some means, and now it is a bit easier now that I have a CIS number I can contact. As I mentioned before, this group was formed among OS-9 users in Fidonet. I have heard of some users of this forum that aren't all that fond of Fidonet, but Fidonet does have alot going for it in that it is the largest amateur network in the world, and the cheapest network for us OS-9 users to access. I do know there are many Fidonet systems in Australia, so you might look around and see if you can find someone to carry the COCO, OS9, RIBBS, and COCO_CLUB echos that are available on the Zone 1 Backbone (if you don't know what that means, ask your local Fidonet sysop). What this means to you is that it is an inexpensive means to keep in touch with OS-9 users on the other side of the globe. There is also Fidonet software available for COCO OS-9 Level 2 users. If you have further questions, or need any help with the above, leave me a message here. #: 14003 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 19-Jan-92 06:33:38 Sb: #OS9 Community Network Fm: Robert R MacKay 100036,676 To: 76370,2100 (X) John, I now have access to a Fidonet BBS here in Australia. Currently we do not have access to zone 1 OS9 echo, but sysop is in the process of making necessary arrangements. My BBS name and address are as follows:The Galaxy Gateway Computer System, 3:640/316. Any information, membership forms that I need to complete would be apreciated. My home address is :Rob MacKay, 7 Harburg Drive, Beenleigh, Queensland, Australia 4207. Will keep in touch, regards, Rob. There is 1 Reply. #: 14020 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 20-Jan-92 02:46:28 Sb: #14003-OS9 Community Network Fm: John Wight 76370,2100 To: Robert R MacKay 100036,676 (X) This is great to hear. I'm sure the OS-9 users of Fidonet Zone 1 (North Amewill be excited to hear this ! As for getting the info to you, I can either send it to you by postal mail (which would take a little longer), or by Fido mail if your sysop would allow (this would be quicker, but would cost a bit more). Netmail messages can be routed at almost no cost, but files I have to send direct. But since it is automatic, the cost is as minimal as it can get. Either way, I'll be in touch with you soon. Hopefully your sysop can make the arrangements to get the OS9 (and COCO, RIBBS, and COCO_CLUB) echos real soon, where you can keep up with the rest of us. I almost forgot, another alternative is to download OS9NET.ARC here, which contains all you need to know to get started, and perhaps advise us on how to grow to better serve those in other Fidonet zones. #: 14093 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 27-Jan-92 05:35:43 Sb: OS-9 Community Network. Fm: Robert R MacKay 100036,676 To: 76370,2100 John, As I understand it we have arranged for supply of the OS-9 echo to our BBS (3:640/316) here in the state of Queensland, Australia. I am in the process of writing some notes for the editorial of our Australian OS-9 newsletter with a view to encouraging subscription to the new OS-9 community network and the Fidonet BBS network here in Australia. I am confident that support will be substantial. I still have not been able to track down a membership application form for the "OS-9 Community Network". Any additional information that you may be able to provide would be great. Regards & best wishes, Rob MacKay. (27th January 1992). #: 14253 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 10-Feb-92 03:49:53 Sb: #14093-OS-9 Community Network. Fm: John Wight 76370,2100 To: Robert R MacKay 100036,676 (X) Don't worry about a membership application. You apply wherever is convenient for you. All we need is your name and address (which I already have), so that we can start the process of exchanging information. In the case of Australian members, we are still deciding on the method of information exchange, i.e., what would be the most cost effective manner. If there were enough interest in your area, it might be to use Fido file transfers, so that you could get files within the same day they are distributed throughout the network. Of course, if you want the large number of files we already have, postal mail might be the best option to start. As for method of communications, it is already established. Here in Hawaii, I am having problems with my mail feed, but other regional coordinators are on the echos quite regularly. I just sent the basic information out the echos. If you have any questions, be sure to ask on the COCO or OS9 echo. It was exciting to see the first message to come from Australia in the COCO echo. It seems to prove that the COCO, OS9, and its community aren't dead, as this community has been able to form a network that is at last reaching around the world :-) Were you able to get our guidelines (OS9NET.ARC) from here? I am about to upload the last two newsletters up to the miscellaneous area (in the old IBM arc format). If you need me to send these postal mail, let me know here, or on the COCO or OS9 echo. I will also get a care package of shareable files together so that the region in Australia can start its library. Let me know what disk format you want, and it would also help if you could send some disks. #: 14353 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 16-Feb-92 21:09:59 Sb: COCO 3 SALE Fm: JOERG SATTLER 74016,631 To: ALL COCO 3 for sale 512 kRAM drive controller software If interested cotact me for price and info on software. 914 478 5848 (voice) 914 478 5851 (fax) or CompuServe Mail # 74016,631 #: 14387 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 20-Feb-92 07:17:14 Sb: OS-9 Community Network Fm: Robert R MacKay 100036,676 To: 76370,2100 John, thanks for the reply. I also left a message for you on Fido Echomail, but as you point out there has been a problem in that area. I have just downloaded the OCNN01 and OCNN02 from CI$. Have not had a look yet, but am sure they will be interesting. Gordon Bentzen will also be interested, and copies of which I will convey to him tomorrow, as we work for the same company. I will also upload to the News area on our local Fido BBS, the "Galaxy Gateway" 3:640/316. Thanks for the offer of files. We certainly would appreciate the opportunity to access this database. Most of us here are using the 80 track double sided format, with 5 1/4 floppy drives, and from memory, I think 20 meg is average for our hard drives. A few of us including myself have fitted the 1 meg upgrade, the others (here in Queensland) are using 512 K. We also have a few OSK users, with a local member Don Berrie (author of CENV) having ordered an MM 1. Just a little info to maybe give a bit of insight to the users "Down Under". I will send to you via the postal services, any number of disks you care to nominate, by way of reply to me on either CI$, or Echo Mail. I have your address as 814 Bannister St #4, Honolulu, HI 96819. Well, it's getting on now John (10 after Midnight Friday morn), so I beter go. I will upload this to CI$ and Echo Mail, so you will receive it one way or the other. Regards, & best wishes from Rob MacKay :-) (and the users down under) #: 14409 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 23-Feb-92 09:26:59 Sb: CoCo List postings Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: All Just a short note to let everyone know that the COCO LIST postings have resumed in Library 14. Their absence over the last few weeks has been due to getting my MM/1 up and in a state where I can be productive. I'm finally there! The wait for the I/O board was certainly worth it. This thing zips along! Now .... the hunt for all those utilities I've grown accustomed to on the CoCo continues! Steve #: 14420 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 24-Feb-92 03:43:26 Sb: #14387-#OS-9 Community Network Fm: John Wight 76370,2100 To: Robert R MacKay 100036,676 (X) I have noticed there have been a few systems from "down under" to join us on the Fidonet COCO and OS9 echos lately. You may have heard there is soon to be an MM/1 echo as well. One in particular is John Kelly's system (I don't have th name and number with me). He has already expressed interest in receiving files via Fidonet software. I don't know where his system is in relation to yours, but all Australian OS-9 users might want to organize in order to distribute information with those of us in Fidonet Zone 1 more efficiently. To start this information exchange, send me some disks. I can work with 5 1/4 inch 360k floppies, or 3 1/2 inch 720k floppies. I have about 12 or 13 megabyte of information to exchange, which would be about 30 360k floppies, or 15 720k floppies (in COCO OS-9 format). Then I hope either you or John Kelly will (or both of you together) establish a means of distributing this information with the rest of the OS-9 community in Australia. With the number of systems in Australia already picking up the Fido COCO and OS9 echos, those of us are finding OS-9 is more popular in Australia than those of us in North America thought :-). BTW, my Fidonet mail problems seem to be over, so I assume your Fido message will be getting to me anyday now... There is 1 Reply. #: 14434 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 26-Feb-92 18:24:46 Sb: #14420-#OS-9 Community Network Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: John Wight 76370,2100 (X) reply Hello John. I have just been reading the information about the OS-9 community and OCNN I looks great. I live in DENMARK nearby Copenhagen, where I work for a company called 'danelec electronics aps'. We sell VME-boards/systems with MOTOROLA 68K/88K running Unix and of course OS-9/68K. I have been here since 1981 (I believe somebody see this as beeing lazy, but a lot happens on the VME-side as well as OS-9/68K). We have just founded a danish OS-9/68K user-group. It is called : ONUG/DK (Os-Nine User Group/DenmarK). We also run a BBS for MOTOROLA family of micros and OS-9/68K. How do I get onboard this group ?? I know very little about 'fido-net'( I have heard the words ), so do you know of any 'fido-nodes' in DENMARK that I can connect to ?? I have downloaded the documents mentioned as well as the newsletters. Can I post these on our BBS ??? I will give you the Number in a few days, but wright now (today) somebody disconnected both the lines we had. Our bbs is running on a UNIX System V/68 MVME147A 8MB-ram 20MHz 16 seriel lines and 600MB harddisk (300 for BBS (100 for OS-9 alone)). It will contain all the TOP-Munic v2.0 and EFFO software + a lot more. Could you please guide me from here ?? I would not mind to work in the interrest of the OS-9 community. best regards Ole B. Hansen 100016,3417 OZ1JRU Email: ole@danelec.dk There is 1 Reply. #: 14501 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 06-Mar-92 02:54:18 Sb: #14434-#OS-9 Community Network Fm: John Wight 76370,2100 To: ole hansen 100016,3417 (X) Consider yourself a member of the OS-9 Community Network, then, and feel free to spread our files around. I have captured your message and will do some research on the best way to exchange information with those of you in Denmark, including Fidonet. There are Fidonet BBS systems in your area. I will look on my list for one near you and get back to you. Thanks for taking interest. So far we have members in the U.S, Canada, Australia, Belgium, and now Denmark ! BTW, the members in Belgium tell me there is a users group called EUROS9 and EUROCOCO, and have sent alot of information such as their newsletters back to us. It looks like our new network is going to show the rest of the computing world how special our community is ! There is 1 Reply. #: 14533 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 07-Mar-92 18:58:13 Sb: #14501-OS-9 Community Network Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: John Wight 76370,2100 Hello John. I will be looking forward to hear from you. I have been online for 10 years with OS-9/OSK, so it is nice to have someone to share with. best regards ole b. hansen #: 14679 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 21-Mar-92 15:36:14 Sb: #HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: All Greetings. I should say here right up front that what follows is purely my personal opinion. A couple or so years ago I first ran into an article in *Online Today* that described a program for the Macintosh that let one's Macintosh communicate with CIS via "HMI," Host-Micro Interface, so that the user interacted with the program (Navigator, I believe it's called), and the program in turn interacted with CIS. Gee, I said, this is nice--and sent feedback asking whether a specification for HMI would be available for download as the GIF format is. I've asked that question repeatedly from time to time over the past few years. In the meantime, CompuServe has come out with CIM, a program for PClones that uses HMI. I've gotten various answers, but it sure looks like CompuServe intends to keep it proprietary. Some replies have said HMI is Very Complicated, and not just anybody could write a program to use it. (Funny, I can get freely-copyable parser generators, compilers, text editors, communications programs. Is HMI more complicated than all of those?) Others have implied that CompuServe will eventually be more forthcoming. I guess what's set me off about this is that CompuServe has recently adopted a new pricing plan, supposedly in response to Prodigy and other information utilities--but this flat rate plan specifically excludes the forums. It would be nice if someone could write a program to efficiently access CIS; HMI would be a considerable help with this. (Text-oriented programs like TAPCIS could, in theory, be fooled--after all, I could Store Unformatted a message that contains text indistinguishable from CIS prompts, right?) Doesn't look like this can happen, though; CIS is keeping HMI proprietary, and unless you have a Mac or a PClone, you're out of luck. Over on PRICEFORUM, I've said I'd hang around for six months, to see whether CompuServe comes around. If they don't, I'm out of here. See you on Delphi. There is 1 Reply. #: 14680 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 21-Mar-92 21:46:18 Sb: #14679-HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: James Jones 76257,562 James, First off, I can't believe that the only thing that's going to make the difference between you accessing the forum here or not (never mind what you do on the other services - there's no loyalty oath you've gotta take, so you're certainly free to use more than one service! ) is the availability of the HMI specs. I personally don't see the HMI specs being released to the public in any forseable future. I can understand the thinking that might produce such a business decision. I can also understand the thinking that says that something so neat and groovy shouold be released to everyone, everywhere. Shades of the old-time spirit of the original hackers! Be that as it may... if you've got a problem with the new pricing scheme not including the forums, be sure and let CompuServe know via FEEDBACK. If enough folks say the right things, who knows what might happen. Finally... back on the HMI. IF you do decide to abstain from CompuServe and patronize Delphi exclusively, what you'll find (other than pricing differences) is a TTY-like interface that puts you into the same interactive mode as CompuServe. It appears as if there are two totally unrelated things that have gotten under your skin. Wayne Press !>at OK #: 14683 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 21-Mar-92 23:33:12 Sb: #14680-HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Agreed, Delphi will have the very same interactive mode--but at the price, I can deal with it there. I've been looking at PRICEFORUM, and a fair number of people seem to be saying they'd like at least some forums (those who don't say all forums propose that each user choose up to n for some small n to be billed at a flat rate) included in a flat rate package. I've said that, too, on PRICEFORUM and via FEEDBACK. We'll see what happens, I guess. #: 14684 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 22-Mar-92 07:14:05 Sb: #14680-#HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Wayne, I have to say I agree in part with what James says. CIS is not making any points with members who do not own a Mac or IBM clone by not releasing the specs to develop an interactive program. They could at least give some sort of license or get a non-disclosure agreement to one or two people in each of the forums to develop such a product. I've also noticed the membership here getting smaller and smaller over the years while Delphi continues to flourish, mostly because of the pricing schemes. Delphi's interface is slow, cumbersome, difficult to use, and whatever other phrases one cares to make up. It stinks, but you get what you pay for eh? On the other hand, most of the new uploads are appearing there. Looking through our data libraries is dissapointing compared to Delphi's OS9 section. I guess what I'm saying and what James is saying too it unless CIS starts doing some more to try and intice new members and keep old ones, the exodus to Delphi will continue until this forum is dead. I realize that they might only care about the hundreds of thousands of members in the Mac and IBM forums, but we also help pay the bills too. A tiny little crumb thrown our way once in a while would do much to help. Mark PS I also have a Delphi account. There is 1 Reply. #: 14687 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 22-Mar-92 10:49:50 Sb: #14684-HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, Yup... I agree with a lot of what you say, and have used those same points in disucssions (I hesitate to call them arguements!) with Compufolks in the past, and probably will do so again in the future. Owell... we'll see what happens in the future. Wayne #: 14689 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 22-Mar-92 19:18:08 Sb: #14680-#HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Wiz, I can recall when HMI was released, it came with the announcement of CompuServe wanting developers to make use of the protocol ... and even went as far as saying C routines were being developed to make it easier. I suppose opinions have changed over time, eh? Is Sandy Trevor still with CompuServe? I wonder if a note dropped his direction might be of some help? Or have you already covered this ground? Sandy was helpful to the CoCo crowd once ... perhap he would be interested in reprising his role? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 14693 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 22-Mar-92 21:37:40 Sb: #14689-HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, As far as I know, Sandy is still with CompuServe - I've not heard otherwise. At this point, though, I'd just recommend that anyone who is seriously wanting to develop an HMI platform on the CoCo contact CompuServe's software support folks and explore the possibilities of working with them on it. Note, though, that from what I'm gathering this kinda deal is NOT what James is talking about - he wants it released ala publicly available but still copyrighted, as was the GIF standards. Wayne #: 14685 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 22-Mar-92 07:38:03 Sb: #14679-#HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I, like you, have had no success in prying even the simplest of specs on HMI out of CIS. I have to admit that I haven't exactly bombarded them with requests. They are really pushing CIM, I get irritated every time I see it mentioned. They are effectivley locking non-PC/non-MAC users out, and it isn't fair. Its particularly frustrating when I see what CIM can do, and is not available to us "outsiders". To be able to download a file in one window, while reading messages in another and having a one on one conference with another user all at the same time, on the same screen, is really something to see. Hopefully they will eventually release something, like they finally did with B protocol. Meanwhile I've toyed with the idea of hanging a data scope on a CIM connection and try to decipher the packets, of course they may have already thought of that and have encrypted the packets, or compressed them, which would make it just as difficult to figure out. On a lighter note, I'm in the final stages of testing out a TAPCIS-like set of programs that I have been working on for the last year or more. I intend to upload the CoCo version here, possibly as shareware. As soon as I get the I/O board installed on my MM/1 (waiting for SIMMs and a cable) I will start working on a version for OSK. (Now you know why I'm interested in HMI :-) Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 14688 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 22-Mar-92 13:40:48 Sb: #14685-HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Well...like I said in a message on another forum, Lauren Weinstein is said to have puzzled out UUCP protocol by experimentation; it should be possible to figure out HMI similarly, though it would be hard work. #: 14694 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 23-Mar-92 21:58:36 Sb: #14679-#HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) James, CIS's PC & Mac packages are not the only automated packages/platforms to improve CIS accessability(affordability). Jim Ness 74415,1727 has written and is constantly updating a very good package for the Atari ST called QuickCIS. Jim's package is freeware, uses the CIS abbreviated commands (available I believe in a FOR-SALE manual) and it is extremely functional. I am using it now. I have the program setup to read the new messages in selected forums,check my e-mail,get new upload listings for selected forums and save any announcements. I just downloaded >250 messages in <15 minutes (2400 baud). I then scan them off-line and reply as necessary. I mark new programs for auto download, and request QuickCIS to post the replies and download the files all with mouse clicks. The point of all this is HMI many not be the only option, or is available online or in guides. You can contact Jim Ness through e-mail or in the AtariPro forum section 14. Note this section is specifically for QuickCIS. CIS supports other efforts because it keeps people like you and me online. Also be aware that Jim is usually busy tweaking QCIS or traveling, but he is always helpful. Best Wishes in finding your information. Bill Healton (not associated with CIS just very satisfied with QuickCIS) There is 1 Reply. #: 14695 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 24-Mar-92 06:51:54 Sb: #14694-HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 (X) Thanks for the pointer. Is source code available for QuickCIS? I don't have an ST. (Shucks, I'll GO ATARIPRO and ask. Never mind.) #: 14720 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 29-Mar-92 14:49:52 Sb: #14679-HMI, CIS, and all that Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) There is also a similar package for the Amiga called "Whap!" that I use for accessing Compuserve. This is available in the AMIGAVENDOR forum here and is a commercial program that you can try. If you purchase the program, they E-Mail you an electronic 'key' that unlocks all of the features of the program, pretty slick in my opinion. The Icon for the Whap! program shows a terminal that reads "CI$" with a large weight overhead. When you double-click the icon to run the Whap! program, the weight crushes the terminal, "Whapping" your CI$ charges down to more palatible levels. I think that this is why the program is called "Whap!", in any event it works even with its (in my opinion) quirks. -J #: 14787 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 04-Apr-92 07:39:31 Sb: #I Give Up Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: All Well..... It has now been two (2) years since the debut of the MM/1 at the Chicago Fest in April 1990. Since that time, none of the promised software packages have made it to the markit. Why? Everyone is still waiting on the window interface to be completed......the very same window interface that was demoed 2 years ago and oh so many promises made. Sigh. My friends, I have given up on this and this is my last public comment on this subject. If someone can get the window system out to the public, then maybe the MM/1 project can still be saved. Hey, a new cause for the whale watchers: Save The MM/1 !!! Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 14795 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 05-Apr-92 01:01:43 Sb: #14787-#I Give Up Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) reply 14787 New Windio w/docs, c lib and c manual is in Pauls hands as we speak. ;-) - Mike - There is 1 Reply. #: 14800 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 05-Apr-92 10:13:04 Sb: #14795-I Give Up Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Hot dog! Thanks for the update, Mike. Steve #: 14799 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 05-Apr-92 08:21:46 Sb: #14787-I Give Up Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mike, Finally! Thanks. MArk #: 14840 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 07-Apr-92 05:36:32 Sb: #14787-#I Give Up Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Good grief. What rubbish. It's only been a little over a year since the MM/1 even became available, and only months at most since people have gotten up to speed on OSK. I sure don't know of any "promised software package" that's "waiting on the window interface" alone. During this period anyone who wanted to begin developing anything has done so. Just look at what Mike Haaland, Zack Sessions, and Mike Knudsen have created. All changes during this period have been so minor that gfx programs (and most programmers are text-oriented instead) have been changed via a quick recompile or even by simply using dEd on the binary. There's a lot more development going on that you don't know about, but most people I've talked to have been held up by three things: 1) Waiting for hard disk setups (a lot of people refuse to do anything until they have one ... I don't blame them). 2) Needing docs if they weren't C programmers (a valid complaint, altho if someone pays me $300 like is needed for G-Windows, I'll come to their HOME and help! :-) And 3) discouragement from you because you didn't agree with their program ideas. I don't know why you've been insulting almost everyone on the cocolist... or why you felt it necessary to sneak over to Delphi and muckrake my stuff (and others') where you thought we wouldn't find out. Or why you think how I spend my freely given time is subject to your approval. But I sure wish you'd stop. And I think you'll find many people agree! There are 2 Replies. #: 14844 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 07-Apr-92 20:18:51 Sb: #14840-I Give Up Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, >It's only been a little over a year since the MM/1 even became available. Go back a few years. I got the first MM/1 boards to make back in August 1990. They were being given out to developers at the October Fest that year. You had one too, remember? Since that time the only applications to come out have been what was available then with the execption of Bob's VED and VPRINT. I'm talking about Mike Haaland's PAINT, TEXTRIX, and FONTASEE and Zacks games. Big deal. Developers have had machines since before then and there is nothing to show for it. >3) discouragement from you because you didn't agree with their program >ideas. I don't know why you've been insulting almost everyone on the >cocolist... or why you felt it necessary to sneak over to Delphi.... You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is. If you think I talked about you "over there" without knowing you would hear about it, you are even more out of touch then I thought. If it pissed you off enough to finish the product, I accomplished my goal. If it didn't make any difference, then I wasted a lot of effort. I seriously doubt if the MM/1 effort will make it now. Too many mistakes have been made. Your windows stuff may give it the shot in the arm it needs (I hope). It may also be a case of too little too late. Time will tell. You can go back into hibernation now. Mark #: 14845 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 07-Apr-92 20:22:41 Sb: #14840-I Give Up Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) >$300 is needed for G-Windows Kev, GWindows is just $200 for the TC70 not $300. It is not available for the MM1 at this time and no price has been set or will be until it is/if available. However you have to remember that GWindows includes G-Desktop (a GUI) and a whole bunch of utilities that are not included with K-Windows. Perhaps I shouldn't say what is or is not included with K-Windows until I know. Does 'anybody' know exactly what you get with K-Windows??? BTW now that you own your very own TC70 and can get K-Windows done for it... Just when will you get that huh huh huh??? (Sorry, couldn't resist) Frank Hogg #: 14851 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 07-Apr-92 23:01:38 Sb: #14844-I Give Up Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Believe me, gratuitous insults and flamage *are* wasted effort, and I think that we now have more than enough examples of that. Perhaps further study of how to motivate people is in order. (Opinions expressed here are solely those of the author.) #: 14852 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 08-Apr-92 00:30:32 Sb: #14844-I Give Up Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Sure, a few people have had prototype machines for years. What's your point? There aren't a bunch of OS-9 developers with any graphics experience, and even they only work on programs in their spare time. So I don't think anyone expects a multi-color Lotus 1-2-3 clone to suddenly spring forth. I think we *will* see some neat stuff, but it takes time and money... which are both in short supply during this recession. But going around posting morose messages with "I don't think the windows will ever be finished" and crap like that sure doesn't help any. And no, insults don't make difficult code easier to write. What a strange idea. Hey, doomsayers are a dime a dozen everywhere. Try stopping into Amiga or Atari groups sometime... there's always a heavy thread going on about how "Ohmigod it's too little too late" or "Our system is doomed" or you-name-it. It's so sad it's almost funny. What a misdirected waste of time and effort! And frankly, it's a slap in the face to people who're still working hard. #: 14862 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 08-Apr-92 20:10:41 Sb: #14844-I Give Up Fm: Dan Robins 70007,3264 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Mark, RE: "I seriously doubt if the MM/1 effort will make it now"..... Seems to me that you shouldn't be blaming anyone for this statment other than the folks at IMS. From someone who's been burned by their meaningless promises (namely, yours truly)....you'll get no sympathy. My faith in them was lost a while back. Dan (who's been biting his tongue for a long time) #: 14853 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 08-Apr-92 00:30:55 Sb: #14845-I Give Up Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 (X) Frank, Don't nitpick :-) I meant $300 for the additional G-Windows developer's package if bought separately, of course. The point being: you need it if you want to program G-W specific stuff, vs just being a user. I've got nothing against that, of course. I can no longer live without charging something either :-) Hate to admit it, but I haven't fully hooked up the TC70 yet. It ended up arriving a week or so after I got in Tony's color digitizer, and things got clogged up around here. You know how that goes . Should have it working by this weekend, I think, tho. Give a call Sunday night. kevin #: 14878 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 09-Apr-92 04:14:36 Sb: #Wish List Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: All Too All Developers or those that wanna be: I have uploaded a wish list of things I'd like to see developed for the new machines or the CoCo. Please give it a look and see if there is something in there you might be interested in doing. This list is my personal opinion only. Fee free to disagree with anything I said. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 14879 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 09-Apr-92 05:20:56 Sb: #14878-#Wish List Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) I thought it was a pretty comprehensive list, myself! Looks like you put a lot of thinking into it. kev There is 1 Reply. #: 14892 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 09-Apr-92 18:44:10 Sb: #14879-Wish List Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, Tank you (grin). Mark #: 14894 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 09-Apr-92 21:52:17 Sb: #Don't Give up Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 To: All Dear Friends: During the past few weeks I have noticed a lot of negative comments on the networks regarding certain members of our COCO community. I realize that some of these comments are made out of frustration. Folks have bought MM1's or one of the new systems and are waiting for he bugs to be worked out. Others are continuing to use the COCO3 and are worried about a lack of support. But I would like everyone to step back for a moment and look at the situation. Our machine has officially been out of production since Sept '89. The COCO's are gone. Tandy is no longer interested...Microware...? Mcuh of what we have seen come out since has been the work of "hobbyist" Sure some of the people are professional programmers, but many have gone way beyond just developing commercial products. If I had to pay for all the free advice I have gotten from Kevin Darling, James Jones, Lee Veal, Mike Haaland, Shawn Driscoll, Marty Goodman, and many others who I don't have space to name, it would far exceed my connect charges. If I might be so presumptious, I have come to consider these people my friends. It was very exciting for me to meet many of you last year at Rainbowfest. As you introduced yourselves to me, (I do have a way of standing out in a crowd, you know) I was like a little kid. I felt, my goodness I'm meeting the famous (you fill in your own name.) I feel our community is special. Oh sure, I have hounded Kevin about the level 2 upgrade to the point that I am surprised when he answers my messages. I bemoan the lack of an OS-9 Version of Max-10, while making very slow progress on writing one. And I publically apologize to all of you. But you folks have been wonderful. Please, keep criticisms directed in valid ways, not personal attacks. I'm not trying to be the COCO Chaplain, (but I would accept the nomination...), but I hate to see people discouraged in their efforts , on all of our behalf, by comments said in anger or frustration. With all best wishes, to all of you, my dear friends, Br. Jeremy, CSJW There are 2 Replies. #: 14899 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 10-Apr-92 05:23:48 Sb: #14894-Don't Give up Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336 To: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 (X) Very nicely said, Chaplain. As one of many "lurkers" on the MM comments, I have also been somewhat saddened by the occasional vitriol that appears. Folks, we have a mighty fine computer in the CoCo and some mighty fine potential in the MM and others; they're worth a bit of struggle to keep and enjoy. But even more important is the camaraderie and joy of accomplishment represented by the Kevins, Steves, and Martys (please excuse the shorthand for naming so many helpers) who so willingly and patiently explain (again and again) the mysteries of OS9 etc. The frustration is evident, but it would be nice to see comments focused on tangibles and not on personalities. It is a real pleasure to be associated with you all. With highest regards, Ches. #: 14942 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 11-Apr-92 20:34:40 Sb: #14894-Don't Give up Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 Of course, you are 100% correct. The only problem is that everyone around here is only human, and such are subject to getting pretty frustrated at times. I just hope that when someone dumps on another member of our commnunity it is taken in the most charitable manner possible. Not only do we have to remember the human frailities we all have, but also the very real problem of this written communication medium which is so unforgiving (it's real hard to read between the lines like you can in a face to face conversation). Thanks for reminding us all. #: 15053 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 24-Apr-92 05:08:53 Sb: #Farewell Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: All Well...I can't justify the expense of CIS any more. So long, folks. See you on Delphi, USENET, FIDO, or the BITNET CoCo mailing list. There are 2 Replies. #: 15056 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 24-Apr-92 12:06:22 Sb: #15053-#Farewell Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: James Jones 76257,562 JJ - Sorry to see you go. You've been a deep repository of OS9 and C expertise over the years, and having an unofficial MW ear hasn't hurt either. Best to you, JJ! Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 15071 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 25-Apr-92 21:22:38 Sb: #15056-#Farewell Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 Too bad so many folks are leaving this service beause of the high rates. Funny thing is, I'm not sure if they are really all that high. I figure if I get on _every_ night for _five_ minutes my month bill would be around 30 bucks. But I'm not on every night; and I'm usually on for only a few minutes -- and some of that time is in mail for which I pay my 7 bucks a month. But if everyone else decides that somewhere else is better; I guess I'll have to follow. Not too much use in chatting with myself here. Hope things get resolved real fast. Oh, does the boss hear about things like this? There are 2 Replies. #: 15076 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 26-Apr-92 04:55:37 Sb: #15071-Farewell Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) I agree about the price. but with the rainbow declining and other problems we face I found this fourm to be great. I can't get delphi since I can only pay VIA checkfree. but i got back into CIS (i dropped it for awhile) because of the mm/1 developers area. I tend to keep my bill low (about $20) which i consider not bad. Mike #: 15080 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 26-Apr-92 16:02:53 Sb: #15071-#Farewell Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) I agree with your view, Bob. I tried delphi for a while and found it much more difficult (and slow, to boot) to navigate than CIS. Ches. There is 1 Reply. #: 15081 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 26-Apr-92 16:36:58 Sb: #15080-Farewell Fm: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 Hi Ches--I find CIS to be a nice board but I spend most of my time on Delphi because of the prices. I dont hav eto watch the time so close and can spend more time browsing. #: 15062 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 25-Apr-92 00:49:35 Sb: #15053-Farewell Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: James Jones 76257,562 I'm real sad to see you leave the forum. Maybe you can still keep dropping by every now and again? I understand your frustration at the CIM folk. I tried myself to get some info out of 'em and have yet to get a reply. Thanks for the help here over the years, - Mike - /ex #: 15064 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 25-Apr-92 07:57:49 Sb: #Almost Normal Again Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: all To those who've left questions and email, Apologies for being "out of it" for the last couple of weeks... I had a tooth extracted and developed a jaw infection; I've been logging in here under a haze of pain, fever, no sleep, no food, plus loads of penicillin and codeine more recently. Give me another half-week... my brain should be errr... "normal" by then :-) thx - kev There are 2 Replies. #: 15067 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 25-Apr-92 10:28:32 Sb: #15064-Almost Normal Again Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Sorry for your pain - Glad you're mending - Regards, Ches. #: 15077 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 26-Apr-92 04:57:54 Sb: #15064-Almost Normal Again Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) i know what you mean! i had all 4 wisdom teech yanked at the same time and it was PAINFUL! I didn't want to do anything except suffer. The codine did no good except make me dizzy. well when you "back into it" can you upload the file that takes a vef pix and makes it into those small buffers? Mike #: 16004 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 25-Jul-92 09:48:44 Sb: #Missing messages?? Fm: Bob Santy 76417,714 To: ALL Does anyone else have the same feeling that they aren't getting ALL new messages these days?? It's only a feeling that there are messages not being displayed. Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 16011 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 25-Jul-92 16:03:20 Sb: #16004-#Missing messages?? Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Bob Santy 76417,714 (X) Bob, There aren't any missing messages, but there are some that you can't see. I am in the final stages of testing what is known as a "nav" program in CIS lingo. This program (actually a group of programs) is called InfoXpress. If you are familiar with TAPCIS, Navigator, OzCis, QuickCis, etc. then you already know what a "nav" program is. InfoXpress logs on to CompuServe and collects new messages from forums that you define, as well as from CompuServe Mail. The online portion can run unattended (in the middle of the night if you want it to). Once messages are collected, you can read them offline. The offline portion allows for viewing, replying to, leaving, saving, deleting and printing messages, among other features. Steve Wegert has been helping me out with testing (which is where all the missing messages went). I will be releasing a fully functional shareware version for OS9 (CoCo) and OSK some time this fall. Bill There are 2 Replies. #: 16029 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 26-Jul-92 10:44:34 Sb: #16011-#Missing messages?? Fm: Bob Santy 76417,714 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill: I already know there are messages I can't see. I'm actually referring to ones that I'm supposed to see. It seems to not only happening on this forum, but on others too. I have ALL sections selected here, but have a very limited selection on MIDIFORUM and MIDIAVEN forums. There seem to be only parts of conversations (message threads) appearing. Maybe it's because some of the responses are under different thread headings though. Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 16030 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 26-Jul-92 14:49{{{{_{{lr~r{{:05 Sb: #16029-Missing messages?? Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Bob Santy 76417,714 (X) Bob, I thought you were commenting on the missing messages like Jim and Hugo. On any forum its possible for threads to get sort of disjointed. The subject can wander, not only within a thread, but between threads. Its one of the problems with turning off sections, the very active users tend to converse with each other throughout the message base, and don't always stay within thread boundaries. Some people are very careful, while others are very careless, about keeping to the subject within threads and sections. There have been one or two short threads that started here in closed sections, and then moved on into open sections, maybe that is what you noticed? Another problem, particularly on busy forms (like MIDI), is the message scroll rate. There are just so many messages that the forum message software can handle, and the oldest (more or less) messages get scrolled off the message base never to be seen again. I don't know what the scroll rate is on MIDI, but I think its around 4 days. So if you don't get there at least twice a week, you will notice holes in message threads. Bill #: 16036 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 26-Jul-92 17:35:40 Sb: #16011-#Missing messages?? Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Oppps..ignore that last message. That's my own non-auto reply mode making mistakes again! Hey--great news on InfoXpress. Sounds like just the thing I need to cut down a bit on my toll charges (I read the bit about loging on in the middle of the night. I used to do that, but find I can't stay up as late these days.). In the just curious dept.--how do these programs handle line noise? I know that even when I'm supposeably in charge I get to places I've never of hear of before. I'd hate to have my system log on unattended and find that It spent hours reading all the IBM messages . There is 1 Reply. #: 16038 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 26-Jul-92 19:14:13 Sb: #16036-#Missing messages?? Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I have done most of my development (over 2 years worth!) on a sometimes noisy phone line with a non error correcting modem. While I didn't really do this on purpose :-) I think it will work out better in the long run. In fact, handling line noise can be a real pain! But I have tried to do the best I can with the errors, Steve has already complained (a little) about some rather strict rules I use, but the reason for those strict rules is because of the possibility of garbled responses. I also utilize some very strict timeout values. As long as the modem/descriptor/driver setup will hang up when the port is closed, then all should be OK. And it would be impossible to get to the wrong forum, or close to it, unless the forum names were almost identical. Have you considered replacing your modem with one that is MNP capable? 2400 baud MNP modems are very cheap, even 9600 baud modems can be had for < $300 these days. Even with all the error checking I do, I am going to recommend error correcting modems when using InfoXpress. I stayed up until 3:00 AM the other night working on InfoXpress (Steve, is a slave driver :-) and I still haven't recovered, so I know what you mean about late nights. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 16053 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 27-Jul-92 23:45:47 Sb: #16038-#Missing messages?? Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Yes, I've been thinking of getting a MNP or other error correcting modem. I'd like to get more info on how well they work with CIS first. Anyone out there using one? Even if it doesn't speed up thoughput (which CIS assures me it won't) the savings on errors should pay for it in a short time. There are 2 Replies. #: 16057 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 28-Jul-92 07:34:16 Sb: #16053-Missing messages?? Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, I've been using a PPI 9600 baud modem for about a year now. It supports upto MNP Level 5. While CIS only supports upto level3, it does a nice job on noisy lines. It really miss it when I dial in from the office where my PC has only a standard modem ... and I'm on some real crummy GTE (sorry Pete) lines. In fact, Bob, once Bill releases InfoXpress ... you may want to look into 9600 access. While it's twice as much, it's 4 times as fast. Steve #: 16069 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 29-Jul-92 15:46:09 Sb: #16053-Missing messages?? Fm: ole hansen 100016,3417 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 hello Bob I use a 9600baud modem with v.32 and mnp5. I call a connection in Munic from Copenhagen and have no problems. My data-rate seems to a little bit bore than 1k-bytes/second. #: 16263 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 22-Aug-92 02:35:36 Sb: #OS9 for Atari Fm: PETER SINGLETON 100024,335 To: Anyone Can anyone point me in the right direction as to where I can purchase a copy of OS9 for the Atari STE. Thank you in advance for any info. All the Best ... Peter Singleton. There is 1 Reply. #: 16272 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 23-Aug-92 00:40:28 Sb: #16263-OS9 for Atari Fm: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 To: PETER SINGLETON 100024,335 (X) Peter, Atari ST/OS-9 was only being sold by Microware direct. Their number is (515) 224-1929. Last I had heard they were at version 2.3 and only offered the Professional OS-9 with C & RMA. Basic was extra. There used to be a personnel version, kind of like Tandy Level II, but they discontinued that in the move from 2.2 -> 2.3. If you find out something different in availability or versions could you post it in a reply? Thanks and good luck. Bill Healton Bill Healton (:<> #: 16276 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 23-Aug-92 23:33:16 Sb: Hurricane Andrew Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: all Hope that all of y'all in Florida have gotten to safety! #: 16544 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 28-Sep-92 00:46:56 Sb: OS-9 Job Opening Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 To: all [edited from usenet] GMX, Inc., a Northbrook, IL computer manufacturer is looking for a full-time OS-9 Systems Programmer. The position will be mostly porting and device driver support for multiple platforms. Send resume to: GMX, Inc. 3223 Arnold Lane Northbrook, IL 60062-2406 attn: Bob Phillips Or call: (708) 559-0909