#: 3232 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-May-90 00:15:38 Sb: #C process control Fm: Joseph W. Cheek 76264,142 To: all I am trying to get a person into OSK (the process-control market), but he ha many objections. Most I could answer, but there was one I could not: He says that the C compiler does not support the keyword 'volatile', and cannot therefore be used to control. Can anyone help me with this? I do not even totally understand what he is saying. Thanks. There are 3 Replies. #: 3234 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-May-90 03:38:23 Sb: #3232-C process control Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Joseph W. Cheek 76264,142 (X) Joe - Sounds like a feeble excuse; or he's very young and right out of school. He's talking about the ANSI C "volatile" type. You use it for, say, accessing an I/O or status port... whose value can change at any time. Example: volatile char *rs232 = 0xff68; while (*rs232 & READY_FLAG) waitawhile; Declaring it as volatile indicates that the compiler should ALWAYS get the value from its memory location. The reason for this type is to prevent compiler optimizations which might keep the original (unchanged) value around. As far as I can tell, OS9's C compiler never optimizes something like this. And if your friend thinks for just a minute, he'd realize that since OS9 has been used for control for over a decade now, then perhaps things must have worked out okay, eh? . Run over to the MW display area (go MSC) and check out the latest Pipelines newsletter... with the large section about OS9 control usage in England. Print it out for him. Might interest him a bit. best - kev #: 3235 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-May-90 06:18:24 Sb: #3232-C process control Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Joseph W. Cheek 76264,142 (X) What he's talking about is one of the so-called "type qualifiers" that are part of the recently-adopted ANSI C standard. The "volatile" qualifier is intended to force the compiler to *not* do certain kinds of optimization, which aren't appropriate for, to use the standard example, memory-mapped I/O stuff. Example: if one has a busy-wait loop of the form while (*p == 0) ; an optimizing compiler would be within its rights to peform code motion on the apparently unchanging value of *p and transform the code into if (*p == 0) {for (;;) ;} testing *p only once. In ANSI C, if p were declared to have the type "pointer to volatile int," the compiler would be informed that unknown external events could change the value of *p, so that it is improper to consider *p as not changing, even though the code contains nothing that would change it. #: 3239 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-May-90 06:26:49 Sb: #3232-C process control Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Joseph W. Cheek 76264,142 (X) Oops. I forgot to mention in my reply that 1. I hope nobody actually writes a busy wait loop like that--it would eat the CPU. 2. As Kevin points out, Microware C compilers currently do not do the kinds of optimization that get one in the trouble that "volatile" is meant to get one out of. There was a recent announcement on comp.os.os9 on USENET saying that some folks in Japan had ported the GNU C compiler to OS-9/68000. That compiler does support the various features of ANSI C, including type qualifiers. #: 3442 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-May-90 03:18:22 Sb: #os-9 computers Fm: William Macaulay 75340,2356 To: [F] All I am looking for a machine that uses the OS-9 operating system. My major application is robotic control therefore a fairly powerful machine (68000, 68020, etc) would be needed to keep up with the computational demand What is available -- off the shelf , and how much would such a system cost. There are 4 Replies. #: 3444 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-May-90 06:18:22 Sb: #3442-os-9 computers Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: William Macaulay 75340,2356 (X) William, Right now, it seems you should go with a VME system. It's an industry standard that has a wide variety of outstanding add-on cards. If you cannot afford it, and can roll your own stuff, you might try using the parallel port on an Ultrascience PC add-on card. These are 68000-based systems that fit in a PC. Soon, my company is porting OSK to a 68030 board from Definicon that also fits in a PC. For other options, leave me email Thanks. Paul #: 3452 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-May-90 11:36:51 Sb: #3442-os-9 computers Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: William Macaulay 75340,2356 (X) The VME stuff is awful expensive, I suggest that you check in to the G-64/96 bus systems available from Gespac in Mesa AZ. They have a wide range of boards allowing you to easily configure a system to your needs. Call and ask for a catalog and price sheet, last phone number I have for them is (602) 962-5559, if this is incorrect use directory assistance I seem to remember them changing numbers or moving? Can't remember for sure. I'd also suggest calling Microware and asking for a copy of their latest hardware/software sourcebook which lists many OS-9 system vendors. #: 3463 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-May-90 16:47:21 Sb: #3442-os-9 computers Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: William Macaulay 75340,2356 (X) Hi. Is this for personal experimentation, or an industrial application? Need it be smaller than a breadbox? Obviously you'll need lots of I/O, also. You've got a lot of choices, from VME to STD bus to small boards. What's your preference? As someone else mentioned, be sure to also call Microware (515-224-1929) and ask for their OS9 Source Book, which lists many vendors (but by no means all). best - kev #: 3506 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-May-90 05:44:18 Sb: #3442-os-9 computers Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: William Macaulay 75340,2356 William: You might call Fred Brown at Peripheral Technology in Marietta, Ga. He offers a 68000 machine customized to your requirements. Depending on your requirements, price is probably in the range of 1700 to 2500 including pro OS-9. His phone number is 404-984-0742. BTW, I understand he has sold many machines for industrial applications. Ed #: 3584 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-May-90 10:00:39 Sb: #Commumications Software Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all Just purchased a PT68k os9 system with 1 meg Ram, 40 meg HD, 4 serial ports. I need a good communucations package that someone can mail to me. Scott Howell 107 Winchester Tr. Smyrna, Ga 30080 thanks. There is 1 Reply. #: 3620 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-May-90 05:39:47 Sb: #3584-#Commumications Software Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Hi Scott! Will send you Monday, via US Postal Service, a copy of 'STERM' and 'KERMIT'. I use these on the same machine. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 3621 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-May-90 08:49:21 Sb: #3620-Commumications Software Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Many Thanks Ed, really appreciate it. #: 3600 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-May-90 12:58:55 Sb: GNU C for OSK Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: All Greetings! News just come from USENET--the mods to the GNU C compiler to make it work and generate code for OS-9/68000 have been submitted to comp.sources.misc on USENET--so keep your eyes peeled. #: 3607 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-May-90 20:48:48 Sb: #OS9 for Embedded System? Fm: Charles H. Murray 73707,1752 To: all I am in the process of designing a small embedded system and was interested in using OS-9 on a 68000 microprocessor. I have some implementation questions for those of you out there with considerable experience with OS-9. 1. What are the memory requirements for running OS-9 on a 68000? (i.e. Will it fit in 64K, 32K, what?) 2. I was planning on using a Sun 3/80 for developement, is this OK? 3. How about a brief description of OS-9 with regards to multitasking, interprocess communications, device driver implementation, etc. This software will have to interface to some analog and digital sensors and some communications equipment (i.e. modems, terminals) I have developed many embedded systems from 8 bit processors programmed with assembly and FORTH, to VMEbus computers running various realtime kernels, but I have yet to venture into the OS-9 arena. Any help on any or all of these questions will be greatly appreciated. Charlie - Washington, D.C. There are 2 Replies. #: 3610 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-May-90 22:04:09 Sb: #3607-OS9 for Embedded System? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Charles H. Murray 73707,1752 (X) A Sun 3 for development? Should be OK as far as I know--there are tools for debugging code from a Unix system across Ethernet on an OS-9/68K system, even. Probably the best thing to do for a brief description would be to call up Microware (515-224-1929, 9-5 on weekdays) and ask for a copy of the *OS-9 Catalog*, which gives an overview of the operating system. I think that they'll send you a copy for free. #: 3618 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-May-90 02:21:29 Sb: #3607-OS9 for Embedded System? Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Charles H. Murray 73707,1752 (X) Hi Charles. From a Microware file I got a while back... The Host system for porting may be: a. A 68000-based computer with 256K RAM and OS-9/68000. b. A VAX computer running UNIX/BSD 4.2 or VMS. c. A SUN 3 Workstation running UNIX/BSD 4.2. The Target (embedded) system requires: a. A 68000 family CPU. b. At least 64K RAM. c. At least 16K ROM capacity. Alternatively, use an emulator with 16K of overlay memory. d. Two serial I/O ports; one for a terminal and one for communications with the host system. I think once you get it ported over, you can drop back the RAM. At the same time, the ROM will need to go up to around 32K, as now you'll burn in the whole OS (original ROM holds a debugger to help porting). You can also drop the serial ports, of course. Hmmm. You can get by with (1) during porting, I think also. I could be far off here. Anyway, as you go along you can ROM each application, and OS-9 will find it automatically on the next restart (or you can load into RAM on the fly, of course). Wait. Let me look on my system: kernel is 25K; a serial port manager and driver maybe 4K total. System RAM use maybe 8-12K on startup? That doesn't count any shells or apps or more drivers, of course. OS-9 may be slightly larger than other realtime kernels, because it's a more full-fledged OS. You could easily switch to doing development on your target if you wished (and added some mass storage). For far better and later details, call Microware at 515-224-1929. And, if you wish, do a "GO MSC" here on CIS and download the files on OS-9 from the Microware Systems Corp (msc) display area. Loads of info there. You'll find stuff on IPC, multitasking, etc. Drivers are pretty easy to write. Be sure to also read their "Pipelines" newsletter there. Judging from what I've been told by others with your same background, you'll enjoy working with OS-9 quite a bit. best - Kevin #: 3739 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-May-90 16:02:44 Sb: #rs232/sterm Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: 76576,3312 (X) Ed, I received your disk today. My only problem is getting my rs232 cable to work on the pt68k. I have a hays compatible modem (Goldstar). I have had bad experiences with rs232s before so I'm a little gun shy to say the least. Thanks for the disks. Oh, one other question... I am using t0 as my terminal and t1 as my modem, so from my terminal do I type Sterm /t1 ??? There is 1 Reply. #: 3769 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-May-90 05:51:26 Sb: #3739-#rs232/sterm Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Hi Scott! Fred ships the PT with only 4 wires connected to the serial connectors. You will have to add a lead from pin 1 (of J11, J12, J21, J22 on the board) to pin 8 of the appropriate serial connector. If you call Fred, he'lll send you a set of jumpers. Make up your serial cable straight through except reverse pins 2 & 3 on one end. I only use STERM for CIS - I use sterm -f /t3 t3 is my modem port, -f tells CIS to use B+ protocol for file transfers. re UUCP/USENET Read James Jones answer to you. Mark Griffith is working on a port of UUCP for the CoCo. When he's finished, I think he plans on porting it to OSK. There is a version of UUCP already ported to OSK. This was done by the TOP Group in Munich, Germany. I haven't gotten it to work and I don't know anyone in the US who has. Documentation is sketchy and written partly in German. The source code is not available. TOP UUCP is part of a set of 15 discs. This is their Release 2. In addition to UUCP, they include some games (which I haven't tried) and lots of neat utilities which I do use. They also include a new 'Bourne' shell (I haven't tried it yet but I do use their older 'C' shell which is great). This software is public domain. I've agreed to help distribute them in the US. I can send you a set if you want for $50.00 (to cover copying costs, shipping, etc). I can provide them on 3 1/2 or 5 1/4 discs. The format is MIZAR (some of the discs will not fit on standard OS9). In your /dd/CMDS/BOOTOBJS directory, you should have a driver 'x0' which is the MIZAR driver. Use that or dmode /d0 and set tos to 0010. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 3773 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-May-90 08:22:49 Sb: #3769-rs232/sterm Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Re: TOP UUCP > ... haven't gotten it to work and I don't know anyone in the US who has. Darn! I've been pushing Barry Bond to dust that off and give it a spin. I'd like to add an OSK machine to the testing fray. Mayhaps between the 3 of us, something can be done? (well ... maybe the two of you. I'll just stand back and watch :-) ) Steve #: 3740 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-May-90 16:04:42 Sb: #uucp/usenet Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: 76576,3312 (X) Whoops, another question.... How can I get an account for UUCP or USENET. I have very little familiarity with these networks so can you fill me in!!!! There is 1 Reply. #: 3753 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-May-90 20:37:39 Sb: #3740-uucp/usenet Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) USENET is a collection of systems, mostly running Unix, that communicate via phone lines and ship news around. UUCP is the name of the program, under Unix at least, that is used to send files between machines. To get an account, find a system that is on USENET, and ask the system administrators if you can have an account. #: 3741 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-May-90 16:07:15 Sb: #pt68k/rs232 Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all I have a pk68k running osk of course. How do you wire a rs232 up to a hays compatible modem (Goldstar) I have had bad experiences with rs323s before and I am a little gun shy to say the least. thanks. There are 2 Replies. #: 3752 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-May-90 19:19:08 Sb: #3741-pt68k/rs232 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott, The file SERIAL.TXT in LIB 1 (or maybe 2) will give you a good background on serial communications including the wiring examples you're looking for. Steve #: 3761 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-May-90 22:39:12 Sb: #3741-pt68k/rs232 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott - See SERIAL.TXT in DL2... should have most of the answers you need. Pete #: 3798 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-May-90 17:16:47 Sb: #still having problems Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: 76576,3312 Hey Ed, I put those wires from pin 1 of the jumper to pin 8 of the rs232 and it still does'nt work. I bought a rs232 tester and it indicates that the RTS is still low,( the green light is off on tester). Both RD/TD are RED. I also swapped pins two and three. Wow, I am having a real problem, Please help me out . There is 1 Reply. #: 3800 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-May-90 18:39:01 Sb: #3798-still having problems Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 Scott - If you're talking about a typical DB-25 connector, pin 1 is frame ground, and pin 8 is CARRIER DETECT. Better you should jumper 20 to 8 and 6. Pin 20 is Data Terminal Ready (DTR), and comes up when the port is opened. This pwill cause DCD (8) and DSR (6) to become true every time DTR comes up. See SERIAL.TXT in DL2 for additional info. Pete Press !> #: 3817 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-May-90 04:57:37 Sb: #3773-#rs232/sterm Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Hi Steve! Barry's good at that stuff? Been meaning to call him - I'll give him a call later this morning. 'Stand back and watch'? Ha! Gonna put you in the middle and throw darts !! Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 3822 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-May-90 08:36:40 Sb: #3817-rs232/sterm Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Good at that stuff and getting better! You should hear him tell about the projects he's been assigned at the office. Some pretty wild stuff! I've had to bring the system down a couple times this week due to the storms we're sending your way. Hope it's not too much of an inconvenience. Steve #: 3818 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-May-90 05:08:01 Sb: #3798-still having problems Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Hi Scott! Pete's reply to you was correct except Fred's on board connector is just a 6 pin connector with pin 2 used as an index. My connections are as follows: PT PT Modem BD DB-25 DB-25 1 -----> 8 -----> 8 2 (not used - index) 3 -----> 7 -----> 7 4 -----> 20 -----> 20 5 -----> 3 -----> 2 6 -----> 2 -----> 3 You also may want to try jumpering as Pete suggested (if you do, disconnect the wire going back to the PT BD). I suspect you may also have another problem which I forgot about. Fred's device drivers 'ain't' the best in the world. Originally, I could get no echo from the modem. (Ever try to use kermit blind - lot's of fun). I assume you're using OSK 3.3 (I'm still mostly 3.2 with a coupld of 3.3 modules). Do you have an sc68681 driver for Term (or T1) and T2 and a sc68681a driver for T2 and T3? I have a single driver for all four ports. It is a hacked version 15 - the crc is 209711. I got this from Simmy Turner. I'll ask him if its OK to send it to you (his stuff, you know). Ed #: 3836 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-May-90 12:38:46 Sb: #OS-9/Amigados Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kev; See msg. to Paul above. I gave your PPN to 2 AmigaNuts who had some questions on comparing 0S-9 to AmigaDOS. They may be contacting you here for some answers that I cauldn't give them about the Ami. Hope you don't mind. ...Jim There is 1 Reply. #: 3846 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-May-90 22:21:51 Sb: #3836-OS-9/Amigados Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Jim - no problem at all. I'll answer what I can, or find someone who's able! #: 3844 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-May-90 20:54:39 Sb: TC70 Computer Fm: Jim Truesdale 70335,1064 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) Frank, what graphics processor chip is used on the TC70? Who is the designer of the TC70 computer CPU board? #: 4001 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-May-90 16:23:56 Sb: it works Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: 76576,3312 (X) Hey ed... My modem connection works!!!! yea,yea!!! thanks.... #: 4072 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jun-90 06:16:10 Sb: #system clock Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: 76576,3312 (X) hey ed My modem works fine!!! In fact using it right now. One question though Does your system clock mysteriously loose time without any explanation. I leave my system on and periodically it will loose 6 hours or so. I usually reboot to reset system clock or use setime -s. I can seem to pin-point the problem though. There is 1 Reply. #: 4106 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Jun-90 03:47:56 Sb: #4072-#system clock Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott: No problems with my system clock - don't have any idea what your problem is. Are you running a software package that mysteriously (sp?) resets the clock?? Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 4112 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Jun-90 18:27:49 Sb: #4106-system clock Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 hmm could be, I will give Fred a call tommorrow. Oh the 50.00 check will be mailed tommorrow (tue). Things have been a little hectic around here and had a chance to mail it. #: 4081 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jun-90 17:17:33 Sb: #de-archiving pgm Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all where is the de-archiving program for the 68? There is 1 Reply. #: 4090 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Jun-90 09:11:14 Sb: #4081-de-archiving pgm Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott, Take a peek in LIB 9 (Utilities) for AR68.BIN (the executable) and AR.AR (the source. Those should fix you up. Steve #: 4115 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Jun-90 21:25:29 Sb: OSK Employment Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: all Does anyone know of any employment opportunities for a person experienced with OSK & 680x0 assembler programming? If so drop me a note via email and we can exchange further details. Thanks! -J #: 4141 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Jun-90 21:48:07 Sb: #OSk BASIC Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ALL Is OSK BASIC a tr{ue compiler or does {it generate IxD-Code like Basic09? t( Sorry {for the line noi{se{{. Zack There is 1 Reply. #: 4143 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Jun-90 22:11:02 Sb: #4141-OSk BASIC Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 It does in fact generate I-code like BASIC09. Press !> #: 4159 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Jun-90 16:10:07 Sb: #4143-OSk BASIC Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Thanks! #: 4194 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Jun-90 14:43:35 Sb: #4143-#OSk BASIC Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) ~ James; re: your reply to Zack >> It does in fact generate I-code like BASIC09. Do any other flavors of OS-9 Basic have the GFX2 commands? I guess what I'motrying to find out is what stuff in CoCo Level II BASIC09 is CoCo. Thanks, ...Jim There is 1 Reply. #: 4198 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Jun-90 17:26:53 Sb: #4194-OSk BASIC Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) gfx2 is a procedure, not part of BASIC09 as such. I'd be heavily surprised if someone who did a windowing package for an OS-9 system didn't provide or at least describe some way to get to it from BASIC09 (or, as Microware likes to call the OSK version, Microware BASIC). (Nudge nudge to folks making certain new computers :-) #: 4256 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jun-90 05:28:54 Sb: New t1..t3 & sc68681 Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: 76576,3312 (X) Ed.. I did a cmp on the sc68681 that I have and the one you send me and both are the same. Should'nt the one you gave me be the sc68681a version. Also since you gave the the 'term' descriptor should'nt there be a 'monokbd' driver too. #: 4275 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jun-90 22:26:01 Sb: #slow transcendentals Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all I am wondering why the Microware 'c' compiler is so 'slow' in calculating transcendental functions (sin..log, etc). Not meaning to compare machines, my 286 (ie my DOS system, I am ashamed to say) does these transcendental functions lighting fast. I am wondering if K&r specifically stated the that transcendentals must be done by Taylor's Series approx. instead of linear 'look-up' table approxs. which would be much faster. There is 1 Reply. #: 4293 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jun-90 09:15:54 Sb: #4275-#slow transcendentals Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott, I assume you are running on a CoCo, not a Mot 68040! The CoCo 3's < 2 mhz 6809 performs in my observations about the same as a 4.77 mhz 8088 - what was in the original IBM PC. It does some things faster, some slower. Assuming you have a 10 mhz 80286, you're wondering why your $5000 Hyundai cannot keep up with a $30,000 Corvette! Try os9 on a 25 mhz 68030 w/ 68881 coprocessor, and all kinds of things run faster! Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 4305 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jun-90 16:31:46 Sb: #4293-slow transcendentals Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) I don't have a 68030 'Corvette' but I do have sup'ed up Chevy as in a 68000 running at 12 Mhz. I am just wondering how the Microware 'c' compiler computes the trascendental {_fxyx fx's. #: 4334 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Jun-90 07:39:24 Sb: PT Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: 4256 re 4256 Hi Scott! I though Fred modified Simmy's code - guess not. Only sc68681 is required. All four (4) serial ports use the same driver. Check your '/h0/DEFS/systype.d' file - if any of the serial ports specify sc68681a, you can change them to sc68681. (Fred's old driver could not handle 4 ports, therefore there were two drivers in memory, sc68681 and sc68681a.) I don't have a mono (or color) board installed. I use terminals only. My TERM is actually t1, T1 is actualy t2, etc. You can't eliminate 'TERM'. Several of the system modules, and I think the boot ROM, specifically call for 'TERM'. Ed /exit #: 4450 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Jun-90 18:42:28 Sb: #serial ports Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: 76576,3312 (X) Hi Ed, You can rest easy now because after I reconfigured my baud rate to 2400 and swapped pins 8,20 things worked great. Evidently there is a mistake in Fred's new manual. There is 1 Reply. #: 4491 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jun-90 04:08:14 Sb: #4450-serial ports Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Hi Scott! Just got my board - haven't installed it yet. I looked at the manual - from what I can tell, Fred has simply changed his designations. What was called 'DTR' he now calls 'CTS'. The connections are the same as before (by the book). Ed #: 4492 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jun-90 05:06:35 Sb: #TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: All OSK'rs The latest release (release 2.0) from TOP in Munich, Germany is available. Lots of good utilities, a UUCP program and some games. This software is FREE (their efforts to get good software for the 680x0 machines running OSK). If you want a set, you can get them from DELMAR CO PO Box 78 Middletown, DE 19709-0078 Attn: Ed Gresick Phone 302-378-2555 Currently, I can only copy them to 80 track 'MIZAR' format (tos=16, sct=16) discs; either 5 1/4" or 3 1/2". It requires 15 discs so please send a check for $50.00 to cover the costs of the discs, shipping in the US, etc. Please allow me 2 to 3 weeks to ship. I have to do the copying when I have time. Sorry, 6809 OS9 users, these programs are only for 680x0. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 4511 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jun-90 01:44:27 Sb: #4492-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Any chance you might be able to upload them in .AR format to the library? WAyne There are 2 Replies. #: 4513 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jun-90 04:40:55 Sb: #4511-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Hi Wayne! The TOP discs are over 11 Megabytes long - Most of the data is already compressed. I don't think its practical. (TOP has placed *NO* restrictions against doing this.) At an average transfer rate of around 1200 - 1500 bytes per second, this would take around 2 1/2 hours (no errors). Do you have enough disk space available in the OS9 forumn? Ed There are 3 Replies. #: 4518 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jun-90 07:00:47 Sb: #4513-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Hi Ed! Wayne, I'm sure, will have a reply as well but let me drop a few pennies in the hat. While space is a precious commodity on any system, if the files that are taking up such space are usefull and getting a lot of action, then the space is certainly justified. With the added interest in OSK system comming about recently, anything to shore up our OSK library is gonna see a lot of action. Upload time is free ... and the advanced warning about disk space is good to know as we can pre shuffle some block aound so you're not inconvenienced by a 'lack of space' error. Many folks will still want to send off for the diskettes as they weight their time against the total download time. But many will opt to roll their own, piece by piece. The forum would seem to be a great way to 'help get the word out'! Steve #: 4525 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jun-90 15:28:15 Sb: #4513-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) If we don't have enough available, we can certainly acquire enough, Ed. That's not really a problem, like Steve mentioned. What I'm thinking of is the fact that the Mizar format is not universal, and some folks may be left out because of that.. plus.. others may not want the whole thing. Is the library broken down into logical sections, or is it just a mixmash of files? Could there be some way you might choose a bit of "The Best Of.." and see if there's enough interest to justify uploading the rest of the material? That might help us gauge the interest in OSK here, as well. As I said... we're interested in helping out the average user, but don't wanna make things a hassle for you at the same time. Wayne #: 4549 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jun-90 14:36:50 Sb: #4513-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) The TOPS stuff is also available via FTP over internet- I have the address of the machine on the local unix machine I access through. It's in tar form, and I'm working on getting a copy... If broken down in to .ar's for separate dirs/apps that would work pretty well for uploading here. I'd be willing to do it (I have 2400 baud local access and a spare line)... StG There are 3 Replies. #: 4555 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Jun-90 08:50:09 Sb: #4549-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 Hi Scott! Thanks for your offer - may need your help. I'll upload the docs, etc. tomorrow morning and follow that up with the contents of 'disk 1' next week. Then we can asses the interest. Ed #: 4575 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Jun-90 03:57:02 Sb: #4549-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 Hi Scott! I understand some additional updates have been posted to USENET by TOP. This is also supposed to contain source code. I don't have access to USENET, but if you can get this and upload them, that could be a major contribution and a big help. I haven't gotten the updates from Germany yet, will probably be another couple of months. Ed #: 4578 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Jun-90 12:41:30 Sb: #4549-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 I have access to the InterNet - what is the internet address of the machine with the TOPS stuff - I assume they support anonymous FTP. Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 4582 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Jun-90 18:00:44 Sb: #4578-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 Robert, This is the third or fourth time I've seen mention of 'anonymous FTP'. I'm assuming FTP stands for file transfer protocol, but ... How about a brief explaination as you understand the topic? Steve #: 4542 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jun-90 04:59:34 Sb: #4511-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Hi Wayne! OK - I'll try to upload. Give me a couple of days to set-up for it. Do you plan a special directory or should I just transfer to dl12? The reason for the 'MIZAR' format is that some of discs are full - 0 bytes left - and this after setting SAS to 1! BTW, I made a *small* error in my arithmetic - it should have read 1200 - 1500 *bits* - 120 - 150 bytes. Transfer time will be about 25 hours - WOW! (If my wife balks at the phone bill, you'll have to defend me!) Ed There are 3 Replies. #: 4545 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jun-90 08:28:10 Sb: #4542-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Gadz Ed! 25 hours! Break that up in small chunks, will ya? :-) Can't have your wife screaming bloody murder. #: 4552 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jun-90 17:31:13 Sb: #4542-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) I think the OSK library would probably be fine for the initial uploads, Ed. If, at some time in the future, you (or someone else) decides to upload the whole library, we can make some changes in that decision. No problem on the Mizar format.. I can read and write it with no problem, but only 40 tracks... it's not that common, methinks. Anyway.. like I said.. don't feel you have to upload the whole thing.. a sample of what you feel folks would like would be fine with us. Wayne There is 1 Reply. #: 4556 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Jun-90 08:54:29 Sb: #4552-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Hi Wayne! I'll upload the docs, etc. tomorrow morning and sometime next week, the contents of 'disc 1'. AR'd, the docs *only* take 113,000 bytes but 'disk 1' looks like about 650,000 bytes. (Can I send the phone bill to Steve ,grin.?) Question - Each disc contains sub-directories. Is there a way to do the AR and preserve the directory structure?. I tried "ar -u ./*" and "ar -u top_1/*". Neither worked and my docs don't cover the subject. (BTW, this is for a 68000 machine.) Ed There are 2 Replies. #: 4558 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Jun-90 09:36:15 Sb: #4556-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Uh, I'm not sure about that, Ed... hopefuly someone else will be able to tell you. About the phone bill.. lemme emphasize again, if this is gonna be a hassle for you, we can see about making different arrangements. Wayne There is 1 Reply. #: 4572 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Jun-90 03:52:33 Sb: #4558-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Hi Wayne! Uploaded TOP6.ar, documentation, etc. to DL12. The transfer efficiency was double what I expected and no errors. The phone bill, per se, is not a problem (but don't tell Steve . This line is also used for UUCP transfers, FAX, etc. so I can't tie it up too long. I'll transfer TOP DISK1 next. Ed #: 4571 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Jun-90 02:59:05 Sb: #4556-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, Try ar -u /* /* etc. This will archive _all_ files in directory NAME and its sub_directory NAME. Please note that ar preserves the _case_ of the directory names fed to it. Bob There are 2 Replies. #: 4573 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Jun-90 03:53:24 Sb: #4571-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X) Hi Bob! Thanks. Does this force 'makdir' when burst? Ed #: 4587 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-90 03:53:14 Sb: #4571-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 Ed, Unfortunately ar will return an error if the directory does not exist. Bob #: 4557 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Jun-90 09:09:13 Sb: #4542-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed; Just as a suggestion, why not create an index file of all the goodies and upload that. Then as you get requests, upload the files of intererest. Gotta keep those wives smilin'!! :-) ...Jim There is 1 Reply. #: 4574 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Jun-90 03:54:35 Sb: #4557-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Hi Jim! Good idea - I'd like to have an inex myself. Probably can make one from 'dsave' or 'du' - I'll look into it. Ed #: 4601 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-90 12:18:32 Sb: #4582-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) FTP is indeed File Transfer Protocol. It is part of "TCP/IP", the network protocol used on the old ARPANet and now on the InterNet. Many nodes on the network have libraries of files (programs, data, etc.) which are publicly available. Rather than give accounts to everyone who wants to get this or that file, these nodes have set up a "guest" account called "anonymous". People can then login with FTP as anonymous to fetch the files the want. Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 4632 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Jun-90 07:56:21 Sb: #4601-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 Thanks for the reply, Robert. Steve #: 4611 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-90 15:24:49 Sb: #4578-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 Yes, they do - let me get that address and message back to you. #: 4651 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Jun-90 09:19:30 Sb: #4572-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Steve - In the event nobody's given you a solution for packaging and compressing groups of files with subdirectories, the best bet is: 1) use 'tar' to create a tar file of the files/dirs 2) compress it using 'compress' So, if you wanted to package and send all the files in /dd/TOP as one unit, you'd do something like this: chd /dd/TOP tar cvf /dd/tmp/topstuff.tar . That would make a unix compatible TAR file called topstuff.tar in the directory /dd/tmp (the TAR arguments 'cvf' tell it to 'c'reate a new tar file, 'v'erbosely show all the files being stuffed into it, and to use 'f'ile /dd/tmp/topstuff.tar as the repository.) To break it out, you'd do the inverse: chd [directory of your choice]; then tar xvf /dd/tmp/topstuff.tar ('x'tract). I'd also recommend compressing the files using the compress command in DL9. It's a unix compatible LZ compression tool that uses a 12 bit compression scheme (i.e. if creating a file on unix for later decompression under OS9, you should use 'compress -b12 filename' to keep unix from using a 16 biy compression map). Anyway, under OS9 you'd just type: compress topstuff.tar. This would create a called topstuff.tar.Z. You would upload that file. To get it exploded back to normal, you'd just 'compress -d topstuff.tar.z', and then use 'tar xvf topstuff.tar' to break it all back out. Pete P.S. I'll make sure that we have a copy of TAR in DL9 if we don't already. #: 4618 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-90 19:44:58 Sb: #4556-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) The TOP package contains an OSK version of the UNIX "tar" facility. It will preserve the directory structure. You might want to consider uploading "tar" first, followed by a tar file containing docs. A person downloading could then get tar and whatever tar files and extract the files needed. FYI: The TOP tar files are compatible with UNIX tar. The FTP-able copy of the TOP stuff is one 10 Meg. tar file. I was able to extract the OSK tar from that file and then transfer it and the tar file to my ST for further extraction... --ddm There is 1 Reply. #: 4695 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jun-90 19:28:44 Sb: #4618-#TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 (X) Hi Dwight! Following your advice (see my message to Pete Lyall). How long ago did you download? And, is there source code for mmon, password and the rest of the login package? The transfer time for kermit is not surprizing - it's not too swift but it is reliable. I'm using Sterm and B+ protocol to upload. Much faster. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 4703 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jun-90 21:53:02 Sb: #4695-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) I downloaded TOP about two weeks ago. Scanning through the list of files, I don't see sources for mmon, password or login. Yeah, I know kermit is slow, especially the "small block" kermit that I had handy. On the other hand it works well and was already on my Sun at work. All I did was cart my Atari to work, hook it up to the Sun and let it run over night. Top certainly has enough goodies to be well worth the download time. I'm really happy with the version of the Bourne Shell (sh) that they provide. It allows you to write shell scripts, has command recall with editting, etc. Very nice! They also provide two of my favourite UNIX utilities, sed and awk. --ddm #: 4617 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-90 19:44:46 Sb: #4542-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) The download time for the TOP disks will be pretty bad. I FTP'd them to my Sun at work and then kermit'd the files down to my ST over a direct connection. It took 13 hours at 9600 baud! --ddm #: 4610 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jun-90 15:24:07 Sb: #4575-TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) If you know what area that these updates have been posted to, I can acquire the files. I don't have a proper rn working, but I do know where to find usenet - but can't go through the whole set of areas looking for something. StG #: 4655 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Jun-90 14:06:04 Sb: #problems compiling tar.c Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all I was unable to compile the 'tar.c' program found in tar.ar in DL9. When compiled using cc -qi tar.c it gave me several undeclared identifier errors and several errors related to pointers. All in all it was several pages worth of errors. According to the instructions in the listing it said the program would work under os9/68k. There is 1 Reply. #: 4661 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Jun-90 19:05:50 Sb: #4655-#problems compiling tar.c Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott - It'd probably help to see the first few lines of the error messages. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 4733 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-90 03:15:54 Sb: #4661-#problems compiling tar.c Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Here are the first few error messages I had while compiling Tar.c on my PT68K. tar.c line 346 **** warning - 'return;' on non-void function *** I had several 'warnings' during compilation, and here are the errors!! "tar.c", line 537 **** operand expected *** u_char *sip = (u_char*) st.fd_fsize; "tar.c", line 537 **** undeclared identifier **** u_char *sip = (u_char*) st.fd_fsize; I had several 'undeclared identifiers throughout compilation on several different lines.. There are 2 Replies. #: 4737 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-90 06:41:42 Sb: #4733-problems compiling tar.c Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Sounds like you may be missing a header file, or somehow not hitting a typedef that should read something like "typedef unsigned char u_char;". #: 4743 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-90 11:04:46 Sb: #4733-#problems compiling tar.c Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) I think JJ may have nailed part of it... the u_char may not be defined. Try inserting a line to the effect of: typedef u_char unsigned char; near the top of the code (before main()). Also, the 'return on non-void function' is a new one, but I have a guess. A function declared as a 'void' means that it 'returns' nothing. If the function that's complaining obviously returns something, try declaring that function as returning that type, also up in the beginning of the code, i.e.: int foo(); or char * woof(); Depending on the type being returned. It does sound as though these should have been addressed in a .h file. Pete There are 3 Replies. #: 4744 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-90 12:42:33 Sb: #4743-#problems compiling tar.c Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Should I have gotten a .h file included in my tar.ar file. If so I need that header file. I will check out the u-char variable. There is 1 Reply. #: 4748 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-90 19:21:42 Sb: #4744-#problems compiling tar.c Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott - The originator may have forgotten to include such a file. Do the #include lines at the top make any such references? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 4761 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jun-90 00:30:01 Sb: #4748-problems compiling tar.c Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) The only #includes that are mentioned are the 'standard' includes you find in 'C' compilers. #: 4745 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-90 14:49:27 Sb: #4743-problems compiling tar.c Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) The 2.3 c compiler now checks this (ansi, here we come!) - that a function declared int (the default) has to return something - an int. Many PD programs have this "bug". I always note files with the return warning in them and globally replace "return;" with "return(0);" just to get rid of the pesky warnings. They *are* only warnings, BTW. It is very rare that anyone delcares a function as type void. (I didn't say never, did I? ). Mark #: 4749 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-90 20:03:24 Sb: #4743-problems compiling tar.c Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) That warning tells you that you have a function that is supposed to return something, but it contains a plain old "return;" statement. This typically shows up in code written in the days before the "void" type. #: 4693 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jun-90 19:25:06 Sb: TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: 76703,4230 (X) L Hi Pete! Thanks for your advice. I going to follow your suggestion and use 'tar' and 'compress'. But, I'm going to use the 'TOP' versions - I think they're slightly different than UNIX (at least the options for 'tar' are different). I'll also upload the TOP 'tar' and 'compress' utilities as an 'ar' file. Ed /ex POST;Pete Lyall, 76703,4230;TOP Munich Release 2.0;12 #: 4697 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jun-90 19:47:31 Sb: TOP Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: sysop (X) Hi Wayne! I just uploaded 'tar.ar'. This contains the utilities 'tar' and 'compress' which will be necessary to 'burst' the TOP files. It's in dl12. Ed #: 4710 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jun-90 03:49:40 Sb: #TOP-Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: [F] Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Hi Wayne! Just uploaded the first TOP disc to dl12. Question - I tried to name it top1.t.z. That name was rejected. I had to use top1.tz. Can you change it to top1.t.z? That follows the convention for this type of file (at least as used by TOP). Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 4721 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jun-90 17:59:41 Sb: #4710-TOP-Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Nope... that'd be an illegal filename on the DECs. Six alphanumeric characters, followed by one delimiter, and then up to three letters for the extension, is all that the system allows. Wayne #: 4717 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jun-90 08:02:03 Sb: #PT68 & Modem Fm: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 To: Scott Howell 70270,641 (X) Scott; I have been following the correspondence as you tried to get your modem working with the PT68. I have not yet been as successful. Could you give me the connections you finally ended up with. I am trying to use the program TUBE that I downloaded from the OSK library but I am not even sure that works. Thanks, Jim Chapman 72557,1120 sb: There is 1 Reply. #: 4732 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-90 03:00:34 Sb: #4717-PT68 & Modem Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 (X) Yes I can sympathize with you!!!!! What I did was to swap pins 8 and 20 in the RS232 side provided that you have a jumper from pin 1 of the board connector (J11,J12,J21,J22) to pin 8 of the RS 232 connector. I had to get these jumpers from Fred, but they are just simple wires with prongs for connecting them into the sockets. Here is a diagram of the connections. Jumper RS232 6 *-----------------------------* 2 5 *-----------------------------* 3 3 *-----------------------------* 7 4 *-----------------------------* 8 1 *-----------------------------* 20 You may want to check out STERM and Kermit communication programs in DL9 or DL12. They are archived so you will need 'AR68.BIN' found in DL9 to burst them. What kind of PT68K board do you have: PT68K-1 PT68K-2 or the new four megabyte board PT68K-4. #: 4724 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Jun-90 20:06:00 Sb: #vi-like editors Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Speaking of a good version of "vi"...you know, of course, that someone ported "stevie" to OS-9/68K. Just today I saw a message on comp.os.os9 from someone who says he has a *very* good vi-like editor, called "elvis", that he wants to get ported to OS-9/68K, and was seeking volunteers. I believe the intent is for the result to be freely-copyable, though one should probably talk to the original poster about that. So...any volunteers out there? There is 1 Reply. #: 4741 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Jun-90 09:09:41 Sb: #4724-#vi-like editors Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I can volunteer to do the port - I had to fix a few bugs in the OSK port of stevie (bad pointers that non-memory protected systems did not notice). The problem with stevie port *I* had was that they used their own termcap library which did not handle fill characters properly. It worked fine with terminals that had no fill charcters. Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 4772 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jun-90 13:32:03 Sb: #4741-#vi-like editors Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Hi Mark! Re your reference to 'fill' characters {ssume your referring to the padding necessary for delays for some terminals. Question, how do you know when you need padding and how do you determine how much padding? Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 4829 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jul-90 09:39:07 Sb: #4772-vi-like editors Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, You look in the manual for the terminal in question. I have done this only once. Your best bet is to steal a termcap entry from a Unix machine for the terminal you want. Termcap entries that work will have the padding info in them already and Microware's termcap library handles them automatically. I can visibly perceive the faster screen fill using uMacs on two of the terminals at work (AT&T 5410 and 5425). If you don't do padding, the terminals want to do flow control, which is not good if your editor uses ^Q and ^S!! Mark #: 4838 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jul-90 19:18:57 Sb: #4741-vi-like editors Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Go for it, Mark! If you do it, and it works good, I'll be glad to stick a flyer about its availability on the nets with each MM/1! I find OSK umacs quite usable, and now with a vi, we should be getting a little closer to being The Lean, Mean, EveryPerson's UNIX. Paul #: 4787 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Jun-90 21:46:36 Sb: #PT68 & Modem Fm: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 To: Scott Howell 70270,641 (X) Thanks for the reply. I have a PT68k-2 with a 40 meg hard disc and a 3.5 floppy. I switched pins 8 and 20 but no luck. The modem cable is straight through except pins 2 and 3 are reversed at one end. The modem only has pins 2,3,5,6,7,8 connected so I also connected pins 8 and 20 but still no luck. You mentioned using STERM or Kermit. I can't download anything to the PT68 until the modem works with it. I downloaded TUBE to a PC at work and keyed it into thye PT68. I suggested to Fred that he include Kermit with the OS9 discs but he wasn't interested. I had hoped to get it from the User Group but I have had no response from them. For a while I wondered if anyone else was trying to use OS9 with the PT68. I have had a lot of trouble with it. Good to hear from you. Jim Chapman, Toronto There is 1 Reply. #: 4792 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jul-90 01:58:33 Sb: #4787-#PT68 & Modem Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 (X) Hey I can mail you Kermit and Sterm if you have a 5.25 HD FD. You said you have had a lot of trouble with OS9 on the PT68k. I am interested in what kind of trouble you are having, mayme we can both work these problems out! Thanks, Scott Howell There is 1 Reply. #: 4795 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Jul-90 05:39:04 Sb: #4792-#PT68 & Modem Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Hi Scott: Re your response to Jim Chapman If Jim has an older K2 machine, the drivers for the 68681 won't support a modem - he'll need the drivers I sent you (from Simmy). I think Jim said he had a 3 1/2" drive - if you want, I can send him the stuff. My k4 is up and running with 4 Megs. Nice doing a single drive backup with -b=800! Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 4834 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Jul-90 17:54:27 Sb: #4795-PT68 & Modem Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Sounds great!! Wow 4 megs. I will be upgrading mine slowly, like 1 meg at a time. #: 4868 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Jul-90 07:30:23 Sb: #PT68 Fm: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 To: SCOTT HOWELL I would be happy to work with you in resolving OS9/PT68 problems. At the moment the biggest problem is the system hangs occassionally. I suspect a problem with the startup file and/or the PATH list. It seems better if I do a dir before I do anything else. Thanks for your offer to send software. I have a 3.5 drive so I took up Ed's offer.What weird things are you experiencing. There is 1 Reply. #: 4922 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jul-90 23:39:09 Sb: #4868-PT68 Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 (X) n One 'weird' thing was the modem not working, but it is working fine now. I do get an occasional system hang-up when I invoke the 'mfree' command and I also get some strange things on my TERM when I use Umacs. #: 4914 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Jul-90 19:51:54 Sb: #Login Shell Fm: David George 72240,134 To: ALL Does anyone know how the OSK system can tell a "login shell" from a shell? In the OSK manuals it repeatedly references "login shell", but doesn't give any specifics on how you can tell one from the other. There must be some way as the .logout file is only read for the "login shell". I seem to remember hearing something about a "dash" for a login shell, but I am not sure if it was called as a dash or a dash parameter. Any help would be appreciated. David George 72240,134 There is 1 Reply. #: 4967 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Jul-90 00:51:40 Sb: #4914-Login Shell Fm: Kim Kempf 76701,65 To: David George 72240,134 The login program forks the shell with argv[0] = '-'. When shell sees this, it knows assumes that it was forked by the login program and makes itself a special case: read the .login/.logout files, set certain options such as "interactive mode". Hope this helps. #: 4950 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Jul-90 06:57:23 Sb: #TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: sysop (X) SysOP! I've uploaded Disk 2 of the TOP - Munich Release 2.0. Please add to the discription, the need to use the 'tar' and 'compress' utilities in dl12. Thanks, Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 4952 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Jul-90 11:34:15 Sb: #4950-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, Dan must not have seen your request to modify the description of Top2, so I've taken the liberty to fix it up for you. Just so you know, the owner of any file in the library has the ability to modify the description, keywords and title anytime after it has been merged into the librariess. Browse the file and use the CHAnge command at the disposition prompt. If you're changing the description, you'll be placed in the EDIT editor (same as the one we use for the message base) and at the _top_ of the current description. Use the /type command to get yor bearings and then edit to your hearts content. Any changes become effective immediately upon exiting the editor. Steve #: 4969 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Jul-90 04:56:50 Sb: TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: sysop (X) SYSOP! Uploaded disk 3 of the TOP - Munich Release 2.0 series. #: 5015 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Jul-90 04:01:35 Sb: #TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: [F] Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Sysop! Started to upload the second part of the UUCP package in dl12. Got message that the library was full. Can you expand it? Ed There are 2 Replies. #: 5020 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Jul-90 09:49:52 Sb: #5015-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) We've requested additional space from the forum support folks at CompuServe, and hopefully the library will be able to handle your upload this afternoon, or evening. Wayne #: 5022 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Jul-90 11:13:18 Sb: #5015-#TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Kincade 70065,1124 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Hello, For myself, as for many of i am sure, your uploads are great, but simply too big (cost wise) to download. Is there any way that I/we can get the files sent on diskette? Signed, Steve Kincade, 70065,1124 There is 1 Reply. #: 5041 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Jul-90 06:53:51 Sb: #5022-#TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Steve Kincade 70065,1124 (X) Hi Steve! Yes, Send me a check for $50.00. I'll send you the discs (15 of them). The only format I can handle right now is MIZAR (16/16) but that shouldn't be a problem. Let me know whether you want 3 1/2" or 5 1/4". Send to: Ed Gresick Delmar Co PO Box 78 Middletown, DE 19709 Give me about two to three weeks to get them out. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 5067 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jul-90 09:30:19 Sb: #5041-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Kincade 70065,1124 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Thanks for the info, I will get it right out to you. My disk system is the format of mfm 80 trk,is your system compatable? #: 5023 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Jul-90 14:00:23 Sb: #TOP Utilities Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, I downloaded disk 1 and noticed a couple of things. 1) You have a file in the archive called /h1/readme that requires one to actually *have* a device /h1 to un-tar the file. (I moded'ed my /r0 to be /h1 temporarily). 2) The versions of vi and stevie on the diskette, like the ones on their earlier release do not support termcap properly. Specifically, they do not delay when the termcap entry says to, but send out the numeric entry to the terminal. This is in case you have a way to get feedback to them. Thanks for the uploads! Mark There are 2 Replies. #: 5046 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Jul-90 19:00:39 Sb: #5023-TOP Utilities Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Hi Mark! I caught the '/h1/readme' problem. Uploads beginning with disc 3 corrected this problem. If necessary, I can re-upload disks 1 and 2. Re termcap support for 'stevie' and 'vi' - I'll send TOP a fax asking for a correction (and/or source code). Ed #: 5059 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jul-90 05:12:43 Sb: #5023-TOP Utilities Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Mark, The first line should read - I caught the '/h1/readme' problem. Uploads beginning disc 3 corrected the problem. Hate to do it, but if you feel it wise, I can re-upload disks 1 and 2. Ed #: 5060 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jul-90 06:27:47 Sb: #TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SYSOP (X) Sysop, I've uploaded disks 5 and 7 of the TOP - Munich Release 2.0 to dl 12. What are the commands to edit the material uploaded? Several of the descriptions I've previously uploaded are incorrect and I'd like to change them. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 5062 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jul-90 06:41:32 Sb: #5060-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Dan Robins 73007,2473 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Ed, Scoot up to the LIB and BROwse the file. When you are at the "Disposition" prompt, type: CHA You'll be prompted if you want to change the Description, Keywords, and Title. Answer accordingly on what you want to change. Do remember, when you change to Description file, it's almost the same as if you were in the message editor. So you can use the /T (top) /Pxx (print xx lines) and such commands like you were writing a message. Dan #: 5070 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jul-90 12:17:41 Sb: #Reading OS9 directorys Fm: George Hendrickson 71071,2003 To: [F] All Could you tell me where I can find some information that will help me to learn about reading OS9 directorys? Is there a text file or something that explains that or is there a book available somewhere that will show me how to get all the information that I need on a file? ex: attrs, late date/time modified, filesize etc.. I am in the process of writing a utility for my OS9 BBS that I run and am having trouble understanding a few things. Thanks for the help. George There is 1 Reply. #: 5092 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jul-90 20:05:07 Sb: #5070-Reading OS9 directorys Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: George Hendrickson 71071,2003 There's not all that much to it. An OS-9 directory is a sequence of 32-byte records, each containing either (1) NUL ($00) as the first byte, indicating an entry that is not in use (when you delete a file, its entry in the directory is marked inactive this way) or (2) a 29-byte file name, terminated by having the MSB of the last character of its name set, and a 3-byte LSN for the file descriptor sector of the file named in the first 29 bytes of the record. If you're writing a utility to read directories, be sure to avoid endlessly recurring by noticing the entries for "." and ".."! (This is the voice of experience speaking! ) The file descriptor sector contains, among other things, owner, time of creation and last modification, and file size. The gory details are all to be found in the section on RBF (the Random Block file manager) in the OS-9 Technical Manual. #: 5099 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Jul-90 23:40:39 Sb: #5070-#Reading OS9 directorys Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: George Hendrickson 71071,2003 (X) George - so basically you need to act sort of like a "dir e" program? Let me look around... there may be examples of this already in the libs. There is 1 Reply. #: 5105 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jul-90 03:28:00 Sb: #5099-#Reading OS9 directorys Fm: George Hendrickson 71071,2003 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) I found a program called 'EDIR.B09' that does a 'dir e' type thing. What I needed was some information explaining how that type of thing was done with examples. The way EDIR.B09 works is it uses Syscall and 'pipes' its info back and forth thru the program. There is 1 Reply. #: 5110 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jul-90 08:54:55 Sb: #5105-#Reading OS9 directorys Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: George Hendrickson 71071,2003 (X) Yah, I found EDIR also, but was unsure if you wanted to do things that way (it's okay of course, using pipes). Another method is to use Syscall and the SS.FD or SS.FDInf status calls to return the main file descriptor info on a file, which includes the attrs, dates, size, etc etc. Check in your Tech Manual in the RBF section, and you'll see what all is inside a File Descriptor sector. If pipes prove too slow, let me know. best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 5112 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jul-90 12:32:40 Sb: #5110-Reading OS9 directorys Fm: George Hendrickson 71071,2003 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Yeah, the pipes are too slow. I was wanting something more direct. I will look into it with syscall. Thanks! George #: 5104 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jul-90 03:22:48 Sb: #5092-Reading OS9 directorys Fm: George Hendrickson 71071,2003 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Thanks for the ok into it and see what I come up with.... #: 5118 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Jul-90 16:50:39 Sb: #5022-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Steve Kincade 70065,1124 Steve, If you're using OSK and we haven't had a chance to talk, I'd love it if you could zot me an email note. Thanks! Paul #: 5140 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Jul-90 06:09:46 Sb: #TOP7.T - rip Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Mike Ward 76703,2013 (X) Hi Mike! Re-uploaded top7.t this morning. Ed There are 2 Replies. #: 5147 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Jul-90 08:08:36 Sb: #5140-TOP7.T - rip Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Ed, I downloaded a copy to my system prior to pushing the button. Should we have more problems with this file, there will be no need to trouble you to re-upload. Thanks for the extra effort! Steve #: 5152 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Jul-90 10:16:56 Sb: #5140-TOP7.T - rip Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Thanks for the extra effort Ed, it's muchly appreciated! #: 5180 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Jul-90 04:30:36 Sb: #TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SYSOP (X) SYSOP! Wanted to upload top10.t this AM - no space. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 5181 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Jul-90 08:30:33 Sb: #5180-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) OK Ed, give 'er another go. I shovelled some mo' coal into Lib 12. #: 5185 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Jul-90 10:42:02 Sb: #MSDOS Disks Fm: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 To: ALL Does anyone know of a way to interchange disks between an IBM PC (MSDOS) and OS-9. Thanks, Jim Chapman 72557,1120 There is 1 Reply. #: 5193 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Jul-90 12:41:37 Sb: #5185-MSDOS Disks Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 Jim - Assuming you're using a coco, there are patches to CC3Disk that can be made, and then you can run Bob Santy's PCDOS utilities. That'll allow you to read/write DOS disks in the Coco3 under OS9/LII. The files are in DL10. Try a BRO/KEY: *DOS Pete #: 5221 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Jul-90 05:52:30 Sb: #TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: [F] Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) SYSOP! I uploaded TOP10.T this morning. Looks like the remaining files will require about 3 megs. I'd like to upload the balance of the files this week. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 5228 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Jul-90 11:52:23 Sb: #5221-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Ed, Looks like Top10 is in good shape. It's merging as I type. Hang tight on the the remainder until we hear from Wayne. We need to scare up a mess of blocks. Your efforts are really appreciated! Steve #: 5247 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Jul-90 03:45:04 Sb: #5221-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, I've massaged things a bit to get you some more space... let's see what you can do with that, and if you need more, let me know and we'll request more from CompuServe. Sorry we have to do it this way, but CompuServe has gotten rather picky on space allocations as their popularity has grown and new resources come online, so.... Wayne #: 5249 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Jul-90 05:16:45 Sb: TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: [F] Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) Sysop! Uploaded top11 and top12 files this morning. Ed #: 5287 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Jul-90 04:31:42 Sb: #5185-MSDOS Disks Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 (X) Hi Jim - MW sells a msdos file manager called MSF (?) or something like that. Also, a coupla people have typed in and compiled the msdos file manager example that's in their new OS-9 Insights book by guru Peter Dibble ($40 from MW... 515-224-1929). Hmm. We still need to ask if that can be uploaded. From the other direction, I'm not sure if there's a util for MSDOS which'll read/write OS9 disks. Perhaps someone else knows. This subject will get hotter in a few months as more people acquire 68K machines; bet on it ! best - kev #: 5305 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Jul-90 04:23:37 Sb: Lib 12 uploads Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, TOP15.TZ did not make it completely, and was not merged into the library. TOP14.TZ DID make it, and is safely ensconded there. Wayne #: 5306 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Jul-90 04:26:53 Sb: TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SYSOP (X) SYSOP, Uploaded disks14 and 15 of the TOP series this AM. Ed #: 5318 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Jul-90 11:47:56 Sb: 3.5 disks Fm: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Ed, I assume you reeived my message re: the 3.5 inch disks. Can you send them OK? -Jim Chapman 72557,1120 #: 5336 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jul-90 04:04:23 Sb: #5318-3.5 disks Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 (X) Hi Jim! Sorry for the delay in responding. Yes, can make 3.5" disks - 80 track - Mizar format. Ed #: 5341 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jul-90 04:52:59 Sb: #TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SYSOP (X) SYSOP, Uploaded disk 15 of the TOP series. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 5345 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Jul-90 05:37:46 Sb: #5341-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) And, it's merged, safely, into the library as I speak. Thanks! Ready for the next one (I think we oughta do one at a time, if that's not a problem for you.. we'll stash an insurance copy away before the merge, so we shouldn't have a problem with a complete file.. The ones marked /incomplete.. well, maybe we can figure out what's going on. Wayne #: 5375 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jul-90 04:10:31 Sb: #TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SYSOP (X) SYSOP, Re-uploaded TOP1 disk. Changed file organization so when the file is 'burst' all files will go to the default working directory. EG There is 1 Reply. #: 5376 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jul-90 06:55:44 Sb: #5375-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) 'Ed, I thought I'd take a crack at this one. Thanks for using the same name on the file. The new version will automatically overwrite the old version. Steve #: 5377 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Jul-90 07:29:49 Sb: #3.5 disc Fm: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) When I got home last night the disc was waiting for me in the mail. A question, what is mizar format? Thanks a lot for your trouble, I appreciate it. -Jim Chapman, 72557,1120 There is 1 Reply. #: 5404 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jul-90 04:27:10 Sb: #5377-3.5 disc Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 Hi Jim! Sure took a long time to get there. Re MIZAR vs Standard OS9 formats. Standard OS-9 format uses 10 sectors on track 0 and 16 sectors for the rest. MIZAR format uses 16 sectors per track across the board. If you look in your ..../BOOTOBJS directory, you should find a file 'x0' - that's set for MIZAR format. Just load and use it. Or, you can use 'moded' or 'dmode' to modify your existing d(x) descriptor. Ed #: 5403 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Jul-90 04:02:15 Sb: TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SYSOP (X) SYSOP, Re-uploaded top2.tz in dl12 this AM. Ed #: 5432 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Jul-90 01:49:23 Sb: #5092-#Reading OS9 directorys Fm: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Any ideas on the feasability of forcing the root directory of a hard drive back from its file status (attr now equals _serwerw) after an unfortunate boo-boo. I want to try this before resorting to salvaging three weeks of work to salvage the text files.... There is 1 Reply. #: 5439 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Jul-90 04:39:14 Sb: #5432-Reading OS9 directorys Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Don Kircher 76346,3475 Don - use a disk editor (like dEd here) or a program, to change the first byte in the root file descriptor (from $7F on your goofed disk) to $BF. That changes the attribute back to what it should be. Piece o' cake. The sector number (LSN) of your root dir file desc is in bytes $08,$09,$0A of LSN 0. Yell if need more help. If you haven't used a disk editor before, now is certainly the time to learn! Much easier than you think. Practice on a floppy is a good idea, too . #: 5499 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Jul-90 00:28:40 Sb: #5439-Reading OS9 directorys Fm: Don Kircher 76346,3475 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Thanks for the reply Kevin, I'll give it a whirl and see how she flys dlk #: 5574 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Jul-90 07:13:12 Sb: #PT68 Fm: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) I now have STRM working. The problem was the drivers. How can I get the source code for the ones you sent me? The first program I downloaded was ARC.BIN in the OSK library. When I ran it I got an error 103 (address exception). Can you tell me which ARC program works. Thanks, Jim Chapman There is 1 Reply. #: 5602 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Jul-90 05:21:04 Sb: #5574-PT68 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 Hi Jim! Great! Glad STERM is working for you. I don't have the source code for the drivers. Simmy sent me object code only. To get the original source, contact Fred Brown at PT. BTW, which version of OSK are you using? The sc68681 code provided with 2.3 is fine as is - no problems. If you're using an earlier version of OSK, Fred will send you an upgrade to 2.3 for a nominal charge. Re ARC.BIN - dunno. Don't use it (I *think* it's used mainly by MSDOS'rs). I use AR. It's in DL12. Ed #: 5733 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Jul-90 19:52:43 Sb: #TOP6 Docs Fm: Doug DeMartinis 72245,1400 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, First, thanks for all the work you put into uploading the TOPS stuff. It's much appreciated. I am having problems finding the docs, though. Here is what I find in TOP6.AR: file stored file name ver file date size size ----------------------------- --- -------------- ----- ----- README_eg 0 90/06/21 09:07 747 473 install.top6 0 90/06/21 09:06 4130 1484 CHANGES 0 89/12/21 15:46 904 658 install.readme 0 89/12/21 15:37 618 472 m4.doc 0 89/12/17 18:31 19804 10014 notes.doc 0 88/06/25 13:27 147263 77955 stevie.doc 0 89/12/17 18:31 15247 8528 uucp.install 0 88/07/09 18:19 4868 2900 uucp.system.doc 0 88/03/18 17:12 1879 1199 vi.doc 0 89/12/17 18:31 15622 8628 It seems to be only the files from TOP6/USR/DOC (as listed in TOPIND.AR). Do you know what happened to the other docs? Thanks again. - Doug There is 1 Reply. #: 5754 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Aug-90 05:28:31 Sb: #5733-TOP6 Docs Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Doug DeMartinis 72245,1400 Hi Doug! Thanks for the info - I'll look into it. Ed #: 5783 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Aug-90 17:37:28 Sb: #TOP - Munich Release 2 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: ALL The balance of the documentation provided by TOP - Munich for Release 2 has been uploaded in DL12 as TOP6a.ar. These were supposed to be part of TOP6.ar but .....? Sorry if anyone has been inconvenienced. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 5784 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Aug-90 22:51:56 Sb: #5783-TOP - Munich Release 2 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Thanks for the extra efforts, Ed. It's really appreciated! Steve #: 5790 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Aug-90 08:55:21 Sb: #5403-#TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Was there a problem with top2.tz? Or top1 (earlier)? I notice that top12.tz seems munged - tar won't burst it. Thanks very much for the effort. Carl There are 3 Replies. #: 5815 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Aug-90 04:09:46 Sb: #5790-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Carl - They should be OK but I'll look into it. Ed #: 5820 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Aug-90 09:30:01 Sb: #5790-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Carl, Ed re-upped 1 and 2 to fix an archive problem, as I recall. Details escape me at the moment... Steve #: 5867 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Aug-90 10:56:25 Sb: #5790-#TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Hi Carl! I did do a re-upload of TOP1.TZ and TOP2.TZ. I did not 'tar' them correctly the first time. Did you use the 'compress' utility from TOP or from MW? TOP's 'compress' utility is a 16 bit compress. According to the TOP documentation, it is not compatible with MW's. Also, I used the TOP 'tar' utility. I don't know if it's compatible with other 'tar' utilities. TOP doesn't discuss 'tar' compatibility. Both of these utilities are in 'tar.ar' in dl12. If that's not the problem, let me know - I can re-upload that file. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 5888 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Aug-90 17:12:32 Sb: #5867-#TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) I'd say that compatibility with MW's compress might not be all that important. MW's compress looks very much like it was written by someone who'd just read *Software Tools*, and while that is a very good book to read, the compression method it gave as an example is of minimal use on most text files. I'd be heavily surprised if anyone made much use of MW's compress program. There is 1 Reply. #: 5901 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Aug-90 04:01:15 Sb: #5888-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Hi James! Until I started to upload the TOP series, I've never used compress so I have no experience with compress. Your comment is interesting - I'll remember that. Ed #: 5833 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Aug-90 13:30:39 Sb: #Files with "-"!!! Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: all In trying to get the TOP uucp package to work I've managed to create a file with "-" in its name. 1) How do I get rid of it! --ddm --mckay@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu --or-- ...rutgers!pur-ee!mckay There are 3 Replies. #: 5837 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Aug-90 13:34:57 Sb: #5833-Files with "-"!!! Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 If you know how to use dEd (the disk editor), you can go into the directory and just change the "-" to something else (I run into this more often these days myself .... maybe someone should write a util to handle this? Should be pretty easy). #: 5851 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Aug-90 21:42:54 Sb: #5833-Files with "-"!!! Fm: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 To: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 Jeez, that's a good one. The only way I can figure how to do it is write your own delete or rename utility, or patch the disk directly to rename and then delete. I can rig a real quick C program, if you can't figure out any other way, then ring me at StG@hummer.iupui.edu and I'll mail you a uuencode of the binary for you to run. STG #: 5863 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Aug-90 03:18:34 Sb: #5833-#Files with "-"!!! Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 The mv included that's part of my mv/ln (programs) link/rename (subroutines) package should be able to give it a reasonable name. If you want to make such files, just comment out the _prsnam section that's in there just to avoid such problems... (Look in dl12 and dl9, I don't remember what I called it, but you should be able to search with my ppn.) (There is another mv out there, I got rid of my copy when it made multiple files with the same name!) There is 1 Reply. #: 5878 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Aug-90 15:15:26 Sb: #5863-Files with "-"!!! Fm: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) If that's the same mv that somebody else picked up for me and put on here, it has a bug in it. Check your routine for matching an already existing name before creating a new directory entry - it is comparing without case insensitivity. If you already have a FOO dir for example, and happen to (accidently) mv bar foo, it creates "foo" where "FOO" already existed. I deleted my copy cuz of that... Apologies, of course, if it's not yours that I had. StG #: 5834 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Aug-90 13:30:57 Sb: #TOP UUCP woes... Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: all Has anyone gotten the TOP 2.0 UUCP package to work? I've got a working systems file but have not been able to transfer mail. I'm also getting "can't create SEQFILE" from uux when I try to create outbound mail. I suspect that both of these problems may be due to the name of the system I am trying to contact. It is "pur-ee" which would not be a valid file or directory name under OS9. Can anyone give me some hints? I'm a much better UNIX person then an OSKer. I've setup UUCP under UNIX, but I'm a bit baffled at this point... --ddm --mckay@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu --or-- ...rutgers!pur-ee!mckay There is 1 Reply. #: 5870 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Aug-90 11:53:45 Sb: #5834-TOP UUCP woes... Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 Hi Dwight! I think there are provisions for a 'permissions' or 'alias' file to allow you one name on your system (no hyphen) but still have a hyphen in the remote name. I've been working with Mark Griffith testing his 'uucp' port for the CoCo. Had a similar problem. One of the remote UNIX sites I work with uses hyphens both in their name and the name they use for me. I had to add a 'permissions' file to alias my site name and their site name. When you get UUCP working right, can you prepare a short manual on how to set-up and use. I can't read German and the info provided by TOP assumes a good knowledge of UNIX UUCP. Ed #: 5912 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Aug-90 07:40:12 Sb: #5820-#TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Ok. Just wondering if it is necessary to dl 1 and 2 again. Guess I still don't know .... Carl There is 1 Reply. #: 5914 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Aug-90 07:59:35 Sb: #5912-#TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl, If you've not had any problems with your copy, it should be unecessary to re-download. Message 5375 was still on the board today when I checked. It explains what the problem was... as I thought, difficulties expanding to a directory. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 5949 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Aug-90 09:09:32 Sb: #5914-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Ok, thanks. Problem is that I have been too busy to keep up with all the forum traffic, so I missed 5375. And I don't know if they burst right or not. Will have to look again. - Carl #: 5913 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Aug-90 07:42:43 Sb: #5867-#TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) All the other's decompress and detar ok. I use stuff off usenet for compress and tar. Tar reports that top12.tz has a bad header and a hex dump seems to confirm that - there is garbage where there should be nulls and so on. Carl There is 1 Reply. #: 5966 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Aug-90 05:00:25 Sb: #5913-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 Carl - Will re-upload top12.tz. Thanks for the feedback. Ed #: 5922 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Aug-90 20:16:15 Sb: #STERM13 Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Simmule Turner 70651,67 (X) STERM13 in DL 12 appears to be cooked. It will crash OS-9/68000 v 2.3 on a PT68K-2. Any attempt to use an escape option that requires an input string from the console (such as esc-S or esc-X) will crash the system, with plenty of garbage appearing on the screen. OS-9 appears to be attempting to execute the contents of the console input buffer. Other programs are better behaved, so I'm not sure if the crash is caused by a bug in STERM13 or the PT drivers. The esc Q option, which requires only a single character input, doesn't cause any problem. There are 2 Replies. #: 5924 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Aug-90 20:46:32 Sb: #5922-#STERM13 Fm: SIMMULE TURNER 70651,67 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) I'll look at the problem, and get back to you. If I haven't responded within a week send another message. simmy There is 1 Reply. #: 5938 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Aug-90 21:19:22 Sb: #5924-STERM13 Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: SIMMULE TURNER 70651,67 It might be the monokbd driver that is cooked. STERM 1.3 works fine with the sc68681 driver running an H19 terminal. I'll check with Fred Brown at PT about the monokbd driver. Thanks for the reply! Bud #: 5932 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Aug-90 07:51:07 Sb: #5922-#STERM13 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Bud, Ed Gresick is using Sterm on his PT68K. I do recall him mentioning driver difficulties. Perhaps he can shed some light. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 5939 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Aug-90 21:20:39 Sb: #5932-STERM13 Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Please see message #5938. I'm gonna talk to Fred Brown about this. Thanks! Bud #: 5967 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Aug-90 10:26:54 Sb: #We're in Beta! Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: all Hey all (especially Kevin, Mark G, Carl, etc), About 2 years ago I got feedback on this forum for a multiplexing protocol convertor we were putting together. It is "soaking" with what we believe are the last bug fixes presently in a test lab and should go to Beta early next week. After 7 weeks in Beta, it will go into the 4 largest Digital Central Offices in the world to allow various Support Systems enhanced access to the switches and monitoring equipment located therein. After that, it will be gradually released to other Digital Central Offices. FWIW, here's what we ended up with: 1 Motorola MVME 147 (68030, 8 mb, 150mb disk) running os9, a board-to-board routing application, X.25 network access applications, and Support System interfaces. 1-18 Motorola MVME 333-2 (68010, 512kb ram, 64kb rom) running os9, and level 2 and 3 of any of several protocols, or a user-interface. These have 6 ports available for async protocols and 2 ports for sync. We have our own block-serial file managers (bfm and pfm) that handle (along with block-serial drivers) data transfers between the 147 and the 333's and read and write access to the 333's ports. The 333's are just devices to the 147 (/slot3, /slot4, etc) and vice-versa (/host). We get about 400 512-byte packets/second composite backplane data transfer with our application fully loaded and running. Bill West, Inc (comprised of Bill West) wrote the backplane driver and file manager with help from developers on our team. GCOM, Inc licensed the X.25 level 2 and 3 drivers for network access and access to equipment that has X.25 interfaces directly to us. Thanks for the input at the time! Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 5973 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Aug-90 18:31:36 Sb: #5967-We're in Beta! Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 Excellent! Have you considered writing about the system? I bet that MOTD, Pipelines, or any of several technical magazines would be interested. #: 5976 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Aug-90 05:32:29 Sb: #TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: sysop (X) Sysop: I have re-uploaded top12.t. Please delete the old file top12.tz. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 5982 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Aug-90 09:20:11 Sb: #5976-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Ed, I've merged in the correction as we type. Thanks for the re-upload! Steve #: 5977 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Aug-90 05:34:45 Sb: top12 Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Carl Kreider Carl: I've re-uploaded top12. I did not compress after 'tar'ing the files. I think the problem may have been caused by the fact that the individual files are already compressed by TOP. Thanks for pointing out the problem. Ed #: 5995 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Aug-90 16:06:48 Sb: #5837-#Files with "-"!!! Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) I may write such a utility before this is over... Another message for me says that there's a version of "mv" whihc should be able to change the directory to a more tractable name. I wonder why the OS9 developers made '-' an unallowed character? It seems kinda strange after coming from UNIX... --Dwight D. McKay --mckay@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu -or- ...rutgers!pur-ee!mckay There is 1 Reply. #: 6039 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Aug-90 17:12:26 Sb: #5995-#Files with "-"!!! Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 Yeah... I ran into a "-" name situation this past week. Perhaps we should hack (or just replace in an os9p3 module) the F$PrsNam function? There are 2 Replies. #: 6060 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Aug-90 19:42:04 Sb: #6039-Files with "-"!!! Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kev, IMHO, hacking the "stock" F$PrsNam would not be a terrific idea, and even replacing it via OS9P3 might not even be too swift. I've seen programs that use F$PrsNam for other things besides path names. Maybe just change "rename" to allow nonstandard file names for the orignal file? Bill #: 6084 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Aug-90 04:33:17 Sb: #6039-#Files with "-"!!! Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin! This could be a good idea. I 'uucp' with 2 companies (Mark's uucp) that use hyphens in their (and my) name. Had to make extensive changes to Mark's uucp to handle this - alias files, etc. If you do this for OS-9/6809, will you do it for OS-9/680x0, too? And, doesn't that mean a new kernel? Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 6087 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Aug-90 05:01:37 Sb: #6084-Files with "-"!!! Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Naw, no new kernel. Remember that each function can be replaced individually under OS-9. Someone noted that F$PrsNam was used by some programs for other purposes and might get screwed up, but I don't see how/why. Valid names are valid names. "-" options elsewhere have spaces in front. #: 5996 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Aug-90 16:06:56 Sb: #5851-#Files with "-"!!! Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 Thanks for the offer Scott. I'll try a program someone else pointed out for me here or I'll just hack something together to rename or delete the file. What a pain... :-( --Dwight D. McKay --mckay@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu -or- ...rutgers!pur-ee!mckay There is 1 Reply. #: 6058 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Aug-90 19:41:50 Sb: #5996-Files with "-"!!! Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 A utility to rename a file with an illegal file name seems like something we all could use at one time or another. I'll put it on my list of MM/1 projects. Bill #: 5997 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Aug-90 16:07:03 Sb: #5863-Files with "-"!!! Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 Thanks, I'll look for them! --Dwight D. McKay --mckay@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu -or- ...rutgers!pur-ee!mckay #: 5998 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Aug-90 16:07:15 Sb: #5870-TOP UUCP woes... Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) I'm looking throught the uucico binary right now and I've yet to see some mention of an aliase or permissions file. Sigh... If I do get TOP UUCP to run, I'll most definately write something about what you need to do. I wish I had a German speaker to translate the docs... --Dwight D. McKay --mckay@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu -or- ...rutgers!pur-ee!mckay #: 6010 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Aug-90 04:30:26 Sb: #TeX, METAFONTS Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: JAMES JONES 76257,562 (X) Hi James! During the MM1 Conference (7/25/90), you mentioned that METAFONT and Knuth's TeX have been ported to OSK. Where and how can I get these? Ed There are 2 Replies. #: 6012 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Aug-90 07:56:00 Sb: #6010-#TeX, METAFONTS Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Well...one port was done by a guy in Canada named Avy Moise. I don't know how one would get in touch with him, but the other port was done by Peter Dibble, and I *do* know how to get in touch with him. Tell you what...I need to get me a copy of it myself, so I will do that, and then I'll upload the results. (What with the TOP stuff and now this, I wonder how big the OS-9/68000 section will get? ) There are 3 Replies. #: 6046 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Aug-90 17:44:39 Sb: #6012-TeX, METAFONTS Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Remind me: I think I have Avy's number around here. He did the PET 6809 os9 port, and apparently there are still many dozens of such users up around that part of Canada . #: 6059 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Aug-90 19:41:59 Sb: #6012-TeX, METAFONTS Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I suspect things will change (i.e. libraries, sections, etc.) once the MM/1 and TC/K-Bus stuff hits the streets. I've already noticed some OS9/68000 stuff in libraries other than LIB 12! Bill #: 6082 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Aug-90 04:29:10 Sb: #6012-#TeX, METAFONTS Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Hi James! Thanks - I'll be waiting for the upload. Will there be docs, too? re OS-9/68000 section - Wouldn't surprise me if we need a whole new set of libraries - maybe even a new SIG as more inexpensive 680x0 machines get out there. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 6088 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Aug-90 05:38:28 Sb: #6082-TeX, METAFONTS Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Dunno how much there will be in the way of docs--they may just say "go buy a copy of the TeXBook." More news as it happens. #: 6016 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Aug-90 11:02:20 Sb: #6010-#TeX, METAFONTS Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed: Common TeX is available on BIX, but you need to get the input, font, and format files elsewhere. Also on BIX: a complete set of DVIxxx code. I don't know how well it works (I've yet to load the 5Meg of input/font/format files). It wants a solid meg of RAM to run - definately not for a "small" machine. (It won't run on my 1040ST - once the kernel et al is loaded, less than a meg is available - it is happy until it tries to load the format file(s) on my Force CPU-30.) Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 6083 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Aug-90 04:31:00 Sb: #6016-TeX, METAFONTS Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 Hi Robert! I'm not on BIX. Yeh, memory can be a problem. I have 4 Meg and can add another 8 if I have to. I understand the users in Germany (the ST is very popular there) were plagued with memory problems, too. They were going to do something about it. Don't know if they did. Ed #: 6057 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Aug-90 19:41:44 Sb: #5976-TOP - Munich Release 2.0 Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, FYI, while the sysops don't mind a request to delete a file, you can request that a file be deleted (if you uploaded it!) by typing ERA at the library "Disposition !" prompt. In most forums the sysops will ask you to make sure you really want to delete a file. Also, if you upload a file with the same name, the system will delete the original file when the sysop enables the new file. You can also update the keywords and description by typing CHA at the "Disposition !" prompt. Unfortunately you can't rename a file, but a sysop can. (You may have known all this already, but it might help someone else.) Bill #: 6091 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Aug-90 09:57:55 Sb: #5973-We're in Beta! Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I could - have to ask about just how much I could say. I'll see what my boss says. #: 6111 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Aug-90 23:09:44 Sb: #6087-#Files with "-"!!! Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) That someone was me :-). To clarify my point a little, I was concerned that existing programs, for whatever reason (and I honestly can't think of any good ones), might rely on F$PrsNam to make sure a name fit the current path name rules. As far as the path name rules go, I agree that a little more flexibility would be great, I always wondered why the rules were so restrictive. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 6114 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Aug-90 02:27:00 Sb: #6111-Files with "-"!!! Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Righto... so if a new F$PrsNam accepts more names for its rules, then you're cool. Unless you swap disks with an older RBF of course . #: 6112 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Aug-90 23:37:34 Sb: #5967-#We're in Beta! Fm: Scott Watters 70441,1150 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Mark, Did you get the port for the 333 board from MW? If you did, check out the rom/debug/bootdebug for the label "PortMan:" and I think you'll see the reason for my interest. Great to see you having success with OS-9 (OSK). Scott There is 1 Reply. #: 6119 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Aug-90 10:19:11 Sb: #6112-We're in Beta! Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Scott Watters 70441,1150 (X) Scott, A couple of years ago, the Motorola sales rep assured me os9 would run on the MVME333. Knowing he had been less than totally honest at times and that os9 required a minimum of support chips, I neither believed or disbelieved him. Motorola put some kind of pressure on Microware and about a month or so later, Denny Bridal (our Microware sales rep and a good man) showed up on my doorstep with roms for the MVME333. That is probably the port that you did. We would have liked to have it, but somehow ended up with a generic Portpak which we ported. Doing it ourselves may have cost us about a month of development time that we did not have. Are you with Microware? In Des Moines? (Myself and another guy on the project have both been out there). Mark #: 6163 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Aug-90 09:45:50 Sb: #5967-#We're in Beta! Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Mark, Are these Telco Central Offices? Just which are the four largest? I'm curious. You're touching on my favorite subject, telephone engineering (well almost my favorite). What company is going to market these devices (if you're at liberty to say. Don't want to give away any marketing information, do we)? Thanks, tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 6164 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Aug-90 16:56:08 Sb: #6163-We're in Beta! Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 Tom, The RAPP is for internal AT&T use only. It is only one of many, many systems that help AT&T provide all of the services that it does. An example of one of the end-user services unavailable without its predecessor is the ability to allow certain business users access to the line monitoring and conditioning equipment that is hanging on their facilities even though it is AT&T owned and maintained. The RAPP will enhance this feature considerably. Again, this is only one service out of many that depend on it. The largest offices are Broadway/Thomas in Manhattan, 54th St in Manhattan, Los Angeles and Denver. Of course "large" depends upon what you are looking at. L.A. has another large Central Office (C.O.), Atlanta is big, White Plains NY is large from an International standpoint, etc... AT&T has many more C.O.s than, say, MCI or Sprint. This makes our Network the most reliable in the world (except for one day earlier this year, ahhummm). It also means that our "big" C.O.s are not *THAT* much bigger than our small ones (with a few exceptionally small ones - I know of a few with only one DACS frame). I'm an engineer - they don't *TELL* me any marketing information! Mark #: 6144 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Aug-90 11:31:10 Sb: #6091-We're in Beta! Fm: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) If you can publish some info about this system, let me know if you would. I print the OSKer, a new OSK mag. Thanks, StG #: 6143 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Aug-90 11:28:57 Sb: #5998-TOP UUCP woes... Fm: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 To: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 > I wish I had a German speaker to translate the docs... I have an uncle that speaks German fluently - and knows a lot of their tech terms - he currently works for a German truck building company. STG #: 6178 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Aug-90 05:25:06 Sb: #Uploading TeX (BIG) Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Sysop (X) About TeX: I *will* be getting it--it's just that it may be a week or two. (I asked how much stuff there is. The reply: oh, twelve megabytes or so. ) So...I hereby ask: what is the best way to upload that? I don't think anyone would go for a 12 Mbyte (or even 7 or 8 Mbyte, with compression) compressed .ar file! There is 1 Reply. #: 6181 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Aug-90 10:47:43 Sb: #6178-#Uploading TeX (BIG) Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I'd suggest breaking it down into whatever packages you can. One of the executable.. one of the docs... one of the accessories... and then the sources in whatever package. 12 megs is a bunch, to be sure. Wayne There is 1 Reply. #: 6186 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Aug-90 20:10:54 Sb: #6181-Uploading TeX (BIG) Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Wayne Day 76703,376 OK. Will do it that way. Also, since evidently one pre-compiles fonts for the particular resolution one's printer can manage, and the compiled fonts make up a BIG hunk of that space, I will leave fonts uncompiled--both for space and because I dunno what folks have out there anyway. Thanks for the suggestion. #: 6183 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Aug-90 16:01:03 Sb: ANSI 'C' availibility Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all When will the 'C' with os9/68000 be the ANSI 'C' or wher can I get an ANSI 'c' for os9, GNU port perhaps? #: 6190 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Aug-90 07:54:07 Sb: #6178-Uploading TeX (BIG) Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) James: Probably you should break it up into logical sections: the executable modules, the DVI stuff organized by printer type, the fonts by style, inputs and formats as separate pieces, etc. Typically, people usually don't need to download all of the DVI stuff, just what they need for their printer(s). The bigest part is the font pixel files (.pk* I think). This alone is close to 5 meg. The only thing I see doing here is break it up into managable pices in a more or less arbituary fashion (i.e. 10 files of a .5 meg each or something). These files won't compress much (they are like binaries - the bits are too "randomized" for the compression programs to get much of a handle on repeated patterns. Robert #: 6195 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Aug-90 15:43:01 Sb: OSK bootsplit avail? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: all Is there an OSK module split program here? I once saw something like SPLT68.ar in users group library, it is now gone. Anything like ezgen available. Want to split out memory modules from a file. #: 6205 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Aug-90 00:23:50 Sb: #6143-#TOP UUCP woes... Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Scott t. Griepentrog 72427,335 Also, our hardware tech, Frank Neuner, speaks Cherman. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 6239 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Aug-90 22:51:26 Sb: #6205-TOP UUCP woes... Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 Paul, I used to know some Cherman many many years ago vhen I vas a kid. Forgot it all now. BUT! I hafe dis dandy little utility kalled "Kraut" dat vill take Englisch text undt output pseudo-German (or Pig-German if you like). Makes for some interestingkt r-r-readingkt. Maybe I schould r-r-run de UUCP docs drough dis before uploadingkt dem. Vhat do you dink (grin)? Mark #: 6210 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Aug-90 09:45:18 Sb: #rz/sz help Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Robert Heller I just downloaded top1.tz (using xmodem), and after un-compressing and un-taring, wanted to move the tar file to a second OS-9/68K machine (I downloaded the file to my Force CPU-30 and want to put the file in my Atari ST as well). I thought I might try using ZModem, but cannot figure out how to make it work. The Force does not have a terminal of its own. I am using a simple com program on the Atari ST (via its /t1 port) as a terminal for the Force's /TERM port. What is the magic incantation to xfer a file with rz/sz using this arangement. Do I have to drag out another terminal for the Force? (it does have a couple of additional serial ports available) rz/sz seem to want to use stdin/stdout for the xfer port. I tried redirecting things, but then there is a chicken and egg problem: how do I get sz started after I start rz on the Atari ST? or if I start sz (on the Force) first, how do I tell it to wait until I fire up rz on the Atari (with rz <>>>/t1)? XModem is not a problem since it is receiver-driven (one starts up the sender and it waits for NAK's, when the receiver is started, it sends NAK's and things take off from there. ZModem seems to work differently... Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 6231 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Aug-90 21:02:29 Sb: #6210-rz/sz help Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 Well ... I tried rz/sz a while ago. You may find some help in a little file RZSZ.HLP that I uploaded to LIB 12. I didn't get terribly far but it might start you out. #: 6226 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Aug-90 19:11:16 Sb: #6164-#We're in Beta! Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Mark, Ahhh, AT&T. So you're talking about #5ess's, used as toll tandems? Working for an RBOC, we're used to thinking of size in terms of raw numbers of access lines installed. Thanks for the information. tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 6249 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Aug-90 10:38:40 Sb: #6226-We're in Beta! Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 Tom, Yup. But, nope, I do not hook up to 5ESS (I should say *yet*). I hook up to DACS I, DACS II, and all DS1 (ie. T1) digital facility terminating and monitoring equipment. None of my equipment (*yet*) directly terminates traditional "phone lines". Our Beta (White Plains) is presently hooked up to 20 DACS frames and numerous other boxes. Mark #: 6259 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Aug-90 21:18:00 Sb: #6195-#OSK bootsplit avail? Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) I have mailed bsplt68 to you. I sent object - need source? - Carl There is 1 Reply. #: 6265 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Aug-90 22:09:25 Sb: #6259-#OSK bootsplit avail? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Well, initially it looks like it just splits up a merged memory module file into the separate files of individual modules. I was hoping for something that might allow me to split out things that are not memory modules, like in the boot rom, the exception table ... How do you feel about giving me the bsplt source and letting me hack at it? thanks a lot. There is 1 Reply. #: 6284 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Aug-90 17:35:15 Sb: #6265-#OSK bootsplit avail? Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) Ah... Yes, bsplt is for breaking boot files, but not the boot roms. In fact the source won't really help with what you want to do, but I can send it. There is 1 Reply. #: 6299 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Aug-90 20:11:55 Sb: #6284-OSK bootsplit avail? Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 I guess I was looking for a binary file editor for OSK. I guess I can convert it to hex, edit it, and convert it back. That may be just as easy. Is there any "public/share" binary file editor? Wonder if B&B would be willing to port over ezgen? #: 6313 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Aug-90 21:01:26 Sb: #6299-#OSK bootsplit avail? Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) There were a few binary file editors here written in Basic09, and the UG lib has/had a crude one or two if memory serves. There was something floating about on UseNet that converted binary files to ascii, forked vi to work on it, and then made it binary again. Other than that I don't have anything. It has been on the list for a long time, but....... There is 1 Reply. #: 6342 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-90 20:21:42 Sb: #6313-#OSK bootsplit avail? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: [F] Tim Martin 71541,3611 (X) There is a program called DMP that I believe is available from the UG that is a binary file lister/editor, I use it all the time for simple stuff. I only have a binary out on my HD, I think I have the OSK C source at work if you would like me to drop you a copy via mail. I'll email you a copy of the binary in S-Record format, use "exbin" on it to convert it back to binary then use attr to make it executable. The only option is "-u" which means Update mode, If -u is not specified, you can't modify the file you're looking at and it works like a normal dump program. Entering a "?" while at the program command prompt will display the program's commands. Hope this is what you need. -J There is 1 Reply. #: 6343 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-90 20:26:13 Sb: #6342-#OSK bootsplit avail? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) How do I specify-9 who the message is to when I use the REPLY command? I wanted the previous message to goto Timothy J. Martin, NOT Carl. Is there any way to change who the message is addressed to after you have posted it? I looked for a way via the HELP command here but didn't see anything that would let me do what I wanted. There is 1 Reply. #: 6352 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-90 23:55:03 Sb: #6343-#OSK bootsplit avail? Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Jay, no, no way for the user to change the target of a message after it's posted. Sysops can tho... I'll take care of it. I run into the same situation, and what I do is to do a Read Previous command to back up to the message I want to reply to. Ah, ok, you probably do also usually. You can however, delete any message you leave, so you could also capture your reply, delete it, then go back and reply to the correct message. best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 6372 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Aug-90 21:12:41 Sb: #6352-OSK bootsplit avail? Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) It's not replying to the wrong message that I have a problem with, its addressing the reply to the correct person at reply time so that they will recieve that nifty note when the logon to the forum telling them that they have a msg here. #: 6345 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-90 23:14:51 Sb: #6239-TOP UUCP woes... Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Ja! Ja! Paul #: 6353 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Aug-90 23:58:17 Sb: #PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: all I have a PT68k 16 Mhz OS9 system and I am in desperate need of some help. To start off with a have written a 'c' program that writes directly to my Hercules graphics card in text mode. The program does a mundane task of writing a row of chars (2000 of them) on the screen. My next task is to write pixels, in 'graphics mode' on the screen which up to this point have been unsuccessful. I know that IBM Herc graphics start at &hB800 whice on the PT68k os mapped to &hd70001. My problem is setting the 6845 to the 'graphics mode' as stated my the Herc standard. I read the Motorola book on the chip and was able to make little since on the stuff. Does anyone that owns a PT68 ever written directly to to graphics on the Herc card supplied with the computer. There are 2 Replies. #: 6356 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Aug-90 06:37:38 Sb: #6353-#PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott - I think Chris Babcock could help. I'll yell at him. Have you tried setting up the 6845 at all yet? Did your book give an example of setting it to different modes? What kind of gfx modes does that card have, btw? There are 3 Replies. #: 6363 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Aug-90 14:13:39 Sb: #6356-#PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, It has a Hercules card. I said that is was a 6845 but that was a slight error. It is really a ASIC that emulates a 6845, parallel printer port, decoders, graphics/text shift regs, timing regs and the like. I suppose that 6845 'compatible' as far as the regs and all, but cannot swear to it. I looked at the Moto specs on 6845 but it was all greek to me Thanks, Scott Howell There is 1 Reply. #: 6375 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Aug-90 23:09:32 Sb: #6363-PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott - if you have the full Moto 6845 specs, then I think they have a work sheet at the back where they give a sample 80x25 calculation. Diddling around with those should bring up something. I forgot to ask Chris. thx for reminder! #: 6364 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Aug-90 14:14:57 Sb: #6356-PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) .con't from last.. I suppose that it has the herc mode 748 X 380 or some #: 6365 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Aug-90 14:16:34 Sb: #6356-#PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Woops, sorry. I think it is the Herc 720 X 348 standard and my book is very thin on info on setting it up. There is 1 Reply. #: 6403 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Aug-90 19:40:54 Sb: #6365-#PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Tracy Thieret has written a set of graphics routines that work with the CSC C compiler that you can get for SK*DOS. You could get these to work with OS-9. You've got them already if you got SK*DOS and the CSC C compiler for your PT68K-2. If not, easy me your address and I'll mail you a listing. Thieret has released for non-commercial use. wrh There are 2 Replies. #: 6435 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-90 03:20:30 Sb: #6403-#PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Thanks, Sounds good. I have os9 My address is Scott Howell 4100-D Woodchase Lane Marietta, Ga 30067 Thanks again There is 1 Reply. #: 6452 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-90 12:26:25 Sb: #6435-PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) OK. Will send a listing. I haven't translated from SK*DOS to OS-9, but the routines DO work with SK*DOS. wrh #: 6474 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Sep-90 08:27:27 Sb: #6403-PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Bud, is that a general offer? I have SK*DOS, and could use a copy of those graphics routines as well. Jack #: 6366 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Aug-90 17:22:39 Sb: #6353-#PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Hi Scott! I left you some information regarding the Hercules board in the mail section. I did try to upload it here, but it was too long. Hope it helps - If you do finally get it running, be nice if you posted the code - Thanks Ed There are 2 Replies. #: 6376 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Aug-90 01:10:05 Sb: #6366-PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Thanks Ed, This Really i mean REALLY helps. Fred gave me to formule to convert IBM addresses to PT68 addresses. I do'nt remember it now but when I get home I will post it Thanks, Scott Howell #: 6475 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Sep-90 08:27:29 Sb: #6366-#PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, would you be willing to upload your info on the Herc board to a DL? Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 6480 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Sep-90 12:23:06 Sb: #6475-PT68k & Herc graphics Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) I'll see what I can do. If I redo it, maybe I can send it up as a regular'message. Ed #: 6373 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Aug-90 21:47:12 Sb: #OSK Binary File Editing Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: 71541,3611 (X) The "moded" (as in MODule EDitor) utility program supplied with OSK V2.3 will do exactly what you want (I think) and works very similar to Burke & Burke's "ezgen" for OS9/6809. Quoting from the manual: "The moded utility is used to edit individual fields of certain types of OS-9 modules. Currently, moded can be used to change the Init module and any OS-9 Device Descriptor Module. moded can edit modules which exist in their own files and modules which exist among other modules in a single file such as a bootstrap file. moded will update the module's CRC and header parity if changes are made." A file named "moded.fields" must exist that describes the module field information for each type of file to be edited. This is a standard ASCII file that you can add your own module information to. Microware provides a moded.fields file with definitions for the Init module, and device descriptors for RBF, SBF, SCF, PIPE, NETWORK, UCM and GFM devices. Definitions include the module and device type, a detailed definition of each field and an optional description of the field to be given when the user asks for help about a given field. The field definition includes: size of field in bytes, offset in hex from the start of the module, base (ascii hex octal, decimal) that the field contents will be displayed in (!), unused default value, name of associated driver (optional). The V2.3 release notes document the moded utility as do the new V2.3 (Revision C) OSK manuals. -J There is 1 Reply. #: 6493 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Sep-90 16:49:10 Sb: #6373-#OSK Binary File Editing Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Yup, I have the moded utility. But the way I see it, moded is only for working with valid OS-9 modules. I want to work with any sort of binary file. The basic functions I want are to be able to cut a section out and write it to a file. Also to search for a binary pattern. replace ... thats about it. There is 1 Reply. #: 6559 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Sep-90 20:49:06 Sb: #6493-OSK Binary File Editing Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) Well, I'm not familiar with any tools that will do what you want then. Good Luck. #: 6385 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Aug-90 22:41:01 Sb: #OSK Forkingg problem Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: All There seems to be a strange problem with the Shell (??) in OSK. I can send mail address parameters to a command like so: "rewop!sysop" and the shell doesn't see the "!" as a pipe symbol. Find and dandy. Now, I try to do the same thing by forking a shell using os9fork(), and it alwasy returns an error stating "can't fork "sysop"" as if it was now seeing the "!" character even though it is enclosed in double quotes in the string that is passed to os9fork() as the parameters. Has anyone seen this before? It works fine under 6809/OS9 Level II shell. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 6393 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Aug-90 02:28:09 Sb: #6385-#OSK Forkingg problem Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Gee. I'm surprised that the shell doesn't see the !. In any case, you should seriously consider lapsing into conditional compilation for this one, and using os9exec() for the OSK version, so that environment variables get inherited. (If all else fails...have you considered domain addressing? ) (Oops... I wasn't thinking about the quotes--I'm not surprised that it behaved as expected in the first case.) Could you post a code fragment, please? There is 1 Reply. #: 6407 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Aug-90 22:47:09 Sb: #6393-#OSK Forkingg problem Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) James, Basically, what was happening was; if you used os9fork() to run this string: rmail "system!user" /nil >>/nil it would return an error of "can't fork "user"" even with the quotes. This same command, if given at the shell prompt, worked fine. It only barfed when using os9fork(). What I did was use system() to fork the process. It's not very elegant, but it works. The only reason I used os9fork() for the 6809 was because the string being passed to the forked command sometimes was longer than the 80 char limit enforced by system(). I assume this is not a problem under OSK. I looked into using os9exec() after Ed Gressick fax'ed me the man pages for it, but it was simpler to use system() so I did. Works fine now. I do need to work with it some more cause I'd like to get out of having to use the shell for the command line redirection stuff. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 6413 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Aug-90 02:40:17 Sb: #6407-OSK Forkingg problem Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) That's interesting. I'll have to experiment some more with that. Thanks. #: 6420 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 31-Aug-90 11:36:55 Sb: c bug Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: all The following source will generate bad code from both c68 and c68020 that come with 'cc' version 3.1. Both compilers will generate a call to float sized addition in either the library or the trap lib, depending on the option selected. The -k=2f option (or c68020 -t881) will generate inline fpu code that is correct. Removing '++', using the '+=' shorthand, or removing 'register' will all permit the compilers to generate correct code. They don't get much more obscure than this! poly() { double accum; register double *rdp; accum = accum + *rdp++; } #: 6442 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-90 09:20:59 Sb: #OSK TSmon Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ALL Assuming OSK comes with a TSmon/login package, does the TSmon properly handle baud rate detection? Zack There is 1 Reply. #: 6443 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-90 09:27:10 Sb: #6442-#OSK TSmon Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) Tsmon has NO ability to detect baud rates (like from a modem). Why I dunno. It seems like such an obvious thing to do. The OSK software from TOPS had someting to do baud rate detection in the older version of their stuff but I didn't play with it to see if it worked. There is 1 Reply. #: 6517 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Sep-90 22:56:36 Sb: #6443-#OSK TSmon Fm: Joseph Cheek 76264,142 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) TSMon is meant for hardwired connections where no baud rate is needed. That is why TSMon does not do auto-detect baud rate. If you need one, there are many auto-detect TSMon-like programs for OS-9/CoCo, and I'm sure that with a little hunting or such you could find one (or get someone to port one for you). There is 1 Reply. #: 6560 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Sep-90 20:51:54 Sb: #6517-#OSK TSmon Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Joseph Cheek 76264,142 (X) I'd guess that the port from 6809 to osk assembler would be no trivial task being familar with both. TOPS is supposed to have something available but I myself have never tried it. There is 1 Reply. #: 6623 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-90 12:30:06 Sb: #6560-#OSK TSmon Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Jay, Regarding porting stuff from 09 asm to 68k asm -- several of our developers are really enjoying the switch and finding it no problem. So "porting" -- if you take the phrase loosely enough -- should end up being less of a learning curve that those Intel types had when they got the 386. What I think we'll find, though, is that programs will get larger and perhaps a little sloppier because we no longer have to optimize stuff to run fast and small. Ah well. paul There is 1 Reply. #: 6626 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-90 14:41:07 Sb: #6623-#OSK TSmon Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, Larger and sloppier does, amazingly enough, have some advantages. I, for one, will be very happy not to have to spend the time and energy trying to cram 37K worth of program into 32K! With all that memory to play with, software developers won't have to resort to obscure, convoluted logic to get the job done. This means faster development time and makes enhancements so much easier to program. The small memory available per process also made it impossible to port a lot of software to OS9 LII, with OSK, that limit no longer exists! Bill There are 2 Replies. #: 6631 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-90 16:26:40 Sb: #6626-OSK TSmon Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Paul, I found the learning curve for moving from 09 to 0x0 to be REAL short! I don't EVEN want to go back to 09 after working with 0x0! #: 6642 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-90 23:41:14 Sb: #6626-OSK TSmon Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, Good points! I do think that many of the developers, you included, WILL benefit from having to keep things tight and neat, though, adding even more pep to an already peppy system. Paul #: 6451 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-90 11:17:50 Sb: wait() Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: all I uploaded into library # 12 (OSK) my function timedwait() that I use when I wish to wait() for a process (keeps them zomby-like thingies down), but don't want to stop processing just because my kid refuses to die! I use this in an X.25 system where I fork a server on incoming call requests and send a SIGHUP (#define SIGHUP 4) if the virtual circuit is cleared. If I did not wait(), the process table would get rather humongous since I never die (immortality is nice). I would like to understand this bit about "keeping a path open" to children, as it sounds a lot more elegant than what I'm doing. Could somebody please 'splain it to us, mon? Mark #: 6454 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-90 13:21:25 Sb: #6039-#Files with "-"!!! Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) That's really tempting... I Still wish I understood the reasons the folks who wrote OS9 choose to do that ( make '-' an illeagal file name character ). --Dwight D. McKay --mckay@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu -or- ...rutgers!pur-ee!mckay There is 1 Reply. #: 6461 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-90 21:53:58 Sb: #6454-Files with "-"!!! Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 I kinda bet that they wished to leave "-" alone, so that command line options could be found easier. Maybe?? #: 6455 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Sep-90 13:21:32 Sb: #6084-#Files with "-"!!! Fm: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Which UUCP are you using Ed? The TOP UUCP seems to be hopelessly unable to deal with '-''s in UUCP site names. --Dwight D. McKay --mckay@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu -or- ...rutgers!pur-ee!mckay There is 1 Reply. #: 6479 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Sep-90 12:21:54 Sb: #6455-#Files with "-"!!! Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Dwight D. McKay 75776,1521 The problem is not with UUCP but with OS9. OS9 does not permit the use of a hyphen in a file name. On the Coco, I'm using the new UUCP Mark Griffith is finishing up. However, to cope with the hyphen problem, I've had to set-up alias files to provide alternate names. Mark is in the process of porting his version of UUCP to OSK. As soon as he releases some source code to me, I'll modify it for aliase names. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 6512 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Sep-90 22:02:11 Sb: #6479-Files with "-"!!! Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, Actually, I think he's got uucp running on the MM/1 already. Paul #: 6476 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Sep-90 08:27:37 Sb: #PT68-K4 Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi, Kevin. Just thot I'd let you know: I finally got around to getting the latest of PT's offerings, which is the K4. It's basically a -K2 with more RAM (0.5 .. 4Meg, expandable to 16Meg), and with all the things fixed that I didn't like about the -K2, viz.: (1) It now has proper vectored interrupts, getting rid of that crazy INT 5 arrangement (2) It has a four-layer board, so runs reliably at 16MHz (so far) There are a few other nice improvements: 4 serial ports standard instead of 2, NEC 765 + 1772 controller (apparently, the 1772 can't read some PC disks), etc. I also got OS-9 with it. Awhile back, the situation was that OS-9 only worked with a separate terminal, but not with the PC keyboard and Herc card. That's been fixed, and now it seems to use the Herc CRT very nicely. Now all I have to do is to (a) figure out how to persuade SK*DOS, OS-9, and Minix to coexist on my 40Meg HD, and (b) learn how to use OS-9. Best, Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 6478 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Sep-90 12:19:16 Sb: #6476-#PT68-K4 Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack - hey, thanks for the mini-review! Does the keybd/gfx card use any default terminal codes? And I'm glad you got OS-9 with it. We may be able to save your soul after all !! Oh, with luck OS9 should support a partition on your hard disk... try setting the LSN offset stuff in your disk descriptor and... ummm... I guess you got the os9 hard disk driver, right? Better ask that first. best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 6530 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Sep-90 16:09:31 Sb: #6478-#PT68-K4 Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Glad you liked the info, Kevin. Re the keybd/gfx interface, I don't know enough yet about how they're handled by OS-9, but it seems that they're definitely not treated as a glass TTY. The system comes up with an impressive looking semi-graphics screen, so I'm sure they're at least doing cursor control codes. As it turns out, I ended up with the OS-9 disks by mistake, and so they're basically bootlegged. Peripheral Technology has been giving $300 tradein allowances on the older boards (how many companies have you seen that would do that??), and so what they did was send updated versions of all the software. They didn't know that I didn't have OS-9 before, so it was just a simple screw-up. I never wanted OS-9, in spite of its reputation, because it always seemed a bit overpriced to me. Spending $400 for the CPU and $600 for the OS never seemed to make much sense. Also, the early versions for the PT-68 didn't use the KB/CRT at all, but required a separate terminal, which defeats the whole purpose. But OS-9 is now listing for $299, and this new version seems very well integrated, and booted right up. So I called PT yesterday and got them to bill me for the system to make me legal, and send the manuals. Looks like I'll soon be OS-9'ing for real. I guess I'm glad they made the mistake, or I'd never have considered it. It turns out I could end up with no less than _SIX_ OS's: SK*DOS, OS-9, CP/M-68K, K-OS, Minix, and the one I'm writing. Something for everyone! Let's see the PC guys top that! Jack There are 2 Replies. #: 6532 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Sep-90 21:31:04 Sb: #6530-PT68-K4 Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack - sounds great! And watch out... a lot of us had started on writing our own OSs, then found OS9 and well... just stopped . Not that I can't think of some things I'd like to add to OS9 myself, but you'll see what I mean, I think. Hey, what's "K-OS", btw? #: 6557 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Sep-90 19:11:49 Sb: #6530-#PT68-K4 Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) A couple of years ago, MicroCornucopia sponsored an effort (actually, more than one) to get some kind of 16-bit hobby computer going. MicroC got started as the "house organ" for the Big Board Z80 SBC, which evolved into the Xerox 820 and finally the Kaypro. I think their idea was to do it again, only with 16 or more bits. There were a couple of tries, including National 32000 chips and a couple of coprocessor boards for PC's. At the MicroC SOG in 1988, Joe Bartel of Hawthorne industries announced the "Tiny Giant," which was a 68000-based system in 5.25" disk drive form factor, like the Ampro. In other words, the PC board would bolt to the side of a disk drive. To make it useful for anything, Hawthorne also developed both a programming language and an operating system, the latter being called K-OS. Joe freely admits that it was a rough cut just to get something going, but their concepts were pretty neat. They developed a stack-oriented language called HTPL, which was a FORTH-like language but with much more of a Pascal-like syntax. K-OS was then written in HTPL. They even had a Pascal compiler, which used HTPL as the P-code. Shortly after I got the PT68 and had written the review for MicroC, Joe Bartel called me and asked me to port K-OS to the system. I told him that I would, but warned him it would be awhile ... at that point I was working hot & heavy on my compiler tutorial series, and also was committed to writing a debugger and linker for the PT-68. Joe said that was OK, and he sent me a "developer's kit," which consists of all the S/W, plus a cross-assembler and sample BIOS, to run on a PC. I never got the thing ported, and I understand that Joe & Hawthorne moved on to bigger and better things ... they got a big hardware contract and couldn't care less what happens to K-OS. So I still have the system waiting to be ported. I plan to do it Real Soon Now. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 6566 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-90 03:32:38 Sb: #6557-PT68-K4 Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Aha. Thanks! Another little piece of microhistory to stow away for future trivia games ! #: 6508 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Sep-90 17:33:36 Sb: ##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: jack crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hi Jack! I don't use the mono adapter/monitor but I checked my handy-dandy IBM book and found the following data for the Hercules Graphics Card. This information can be found in pages 147 - 148 of 'IBM Microcomputers, A Programmer's Handbook' by Sanchez and Canton published by McGraw-Hill. There is a warning: 'INCORRECT PROGRAMMING CAN DAMAGE THE MONITOR' The following is for the HGC Display Control Register at port 3B8H (write only) Bit 0 - 1 Bit 1 - Mode Select - 0 = Text Mode 1 = Graphics Mode Bit 2 - 0 Bit 3 - Video - 0 = Disabled 1 = Enabled Bit 4 - 0 Bit 5 - Blink - 0 = On 1 = Off Bit 6 - 0 Bit 7 - Graphics Page Select - 0 = Select page 0 1 = Select page 1 NORMAL SETTINGS: Alpha mode: 00101001B = 29H Page 0 in graphics mode: 00101011B = 2BH Page 1 in graphics mode: 10101011B = ABH The following is for the HGC Display Status Register at port 3BAH (read only) Bit 0 - Video Signal State - 0 = Vertical Retrace 1 = Scanning Bit 1 - Light Pen Flip-Flop Bit 2 - Not used Bit 3 - 0 = Dot not being written 1 = Dot being written Bit 4 - Not used Bit 5 - Not used Bit 6 - Not used Bit 7 - Vertical Synchronization Signal - 0 = Raster in vertical retrace The following is for the HGC Configuration Switch at port 3BFH (read-write) Bit 0 - 1 = Graphics mode allowed Bit 1 = Access to page 1 allowed Bits 2 thru 7 - Not used HGC CONFIGURATIONS: 00 = DIAG (default) 10 = HALF (CGA compatible) 11 = FULL (text/graphics) I hope the above information is of help. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 6531 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Sep-90 16:09:40 Sb: #6508-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, thanks for the info. I had that already, tho. There's a book out that describes the Herc card pretty thoroughly, and I have that. What I was really looking for was C-code examples. You have to approach all of this pretty gingerly, because of that warning you quoted. As far as I know, the IBM PC is the only computer system ever designed in which a software bug can and will destroy the hardware. Ain't progress wonderful? We used to say, when teaching neophyte programmers, "Don't be afraid to try things or to make a mistake. Nothing you type is going to hurt the machine." When you're programming the CRT, though, this is definitely _NOT_ the case, anymore. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 6546 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Sep-90 03:29:06 Sb: #6531-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Here is a program I wrote using the using the info Ed gave me abount setting up the Herc card. When I run the program it puts the card into Herc graphics mode but in the process it turns the snowy and wavy. This I suppose is the 'graphics' mode but only half way I guess. #include #define VID_CARD 0xD70001 #define HGC_CONT 0xFA0771 #define HGC_CONF 0xFA077F #define HGC_STAT 0xFA0775 * These defines are set to configure the Herc graphics card. The formula to convert IBM addresses (video) to PT68K addresses is (IBMVid * 2) + C00001. For non-video conversions: (IBM * 2) + FA0001. */ char *video = VID_CARD; unsigned char *v_controll = HGC_CONT; unsigned char *v_config = HGC_CONF; unsigned char *v_stat = HGC_STAT; char c; int i,n; main() { video = (char *) VID_CARD; v_controll = (unsigned char *) HGC_CONT; v_config = (unsigned char *) HGC_CONF; *v_controll =0x2b; *v_config = 0x1; printf("%x\n",*v_controll); printf("%x\n",*v_config); video = (char *) VID_CARD; for (i=0;i<2000;i++) { *video++ =0xff; } } There is 1 Reply. #: 6558 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Sep-90 19:11:53 Sb: #6546-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) OK, Scott. Thanks. Your description doesn't exactly fill me with enthusiasm, but I guess it's a good starting place. I'll take a look at the code and see what I can make of it. Thanks again. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 6562 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Sep-90 23:03:32 Sb: #6558-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hey Jack this news WILL fill you with enthisiasm!!! I went to Peripherial Technology for it is just doun the road. Fred is working on a EGA/VGA driver for the k2/k4. He showed me some VGA slide shows on the k2 and they look TERRIFIC. If you have ever looked at any of the IBM VGA slide shows you'll know what I am talking about. He says he will eventually develop graphics primatives for the drivers, but the 'slide shows' was enough to convince me to buy. There are 2 Replies. #: 6567 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-90 04:30:41 Sb: #6562-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) That is good news, Scott. Most of the people I know who are using the PT68 use it only as a glass TTY ... Unix-oriented folks, mostly. It's always bothered me that we haven't done more to explore the graphics-oriented aspects that the H/W is capable of. As soon as I got the -K2, I got a book on the Herc board and set out to find out how to use its graphics capabilities. But somehow, it all fell by the wayside, in favor of more pressing matters like how to get a screen editor that worked, to replace EDLIN!!! Or a linker. I've spent two years, off & on, with SK*DOS. Those are the kinds of things we have to worry about with it. I really like the general concepts of SK*DOS ... I've referred to it as the CP/M of the 90's. That is, I prefer simple, small, OS's that let me get to the hardware with a minimum of fuss, and upon which I can build the rest of the pieces I need. But SK*DOS hasn't done much lately, and the user base that you need to get public-domain programs floating around just isn't there. I'd love to see what the -K4 can do with VGA. My guess is that, given the speed of the processor and the large amount of RAM the CPU can hold, it could be spectacular. Who knows, maybe mice and icons are only a (shudder!) step away. Jack Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 6569 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-90 07:08:47 Sb: #6567-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack - oh, they are! (mice and icons close by) As soon as I can get ahold of a PT/VGA setup, we'll be porting my (still being worked-on) OSK windowing system to it. The Atari port isn't far off, and of course the MM/1 and hopefully the TC70 will be running it, too. Got any ideas, now's the time to pop me on the head ! There are 2 Replies. #: 6574 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-90 18:58:27 Sb: #6569-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Well, let's not get carried away with this thing, Kev. If OS-9 starts displaying little trash cans, I'm outta here! Jack There are 2 Replies. #: 6576 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-90 21:07:10 Sb: #6574-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Don't worry, Jack, there are plenty of command line die hards (and I count myself among them) that will seldom use some of the slick mouse/icon stuff. Remember, however, that that kind of interface is extremely important for a very large percentage of computer users. Just like the talk show hosts say, if you don't like it, turn it off! If you don't want those little trashcan icons, don't use that interface. Note to developers: please remember that there are users that don't like rodents, or pull down menus, or cute little icons! Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 6592 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-90 09:55:04 Sb: #6576-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Whew. That's a relief, Bill. When I first saw the Mac, I fell in love with all the slick graphics stuff. I also bought one of the first Amigas. I quickly fell out of love again when I learned; (1) How much of the computer resources, both CPU time and memory, go into supporting the stuff (2) How _HUGE_ the applications are (3) The fact that programming for a GUI can become your life's work My idea of the ideal OS is one that's absolutely minimalist, but also modular. In other words, all I really want the OS vendor to build in is the essentials: File system, file & device I/O, and program control. Then anybody who wants to can add their own favorite user interfaces. I'm working on one like thap`3or the PT-68. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 6598 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-90 12:59:37 Sb: #6592-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack - my entire club went down to look at the first Amigas... we were excited until we found out that the editor and other programs weren't reentrant... you had to take up memory for another copy each time you started another session multitasking. Amiga programmers are getting better at writing more programs as reentrant, but an awful lot of stuff still isn't. Always seemed like a waste of a 68000's talents to me. I used to accuse them of treating the 680x0 cpus as "giant 6502s" . #: 6620 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-90 12:17:50 Sb: #6574-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack, Now, trash cans are sometimes OK for some people, so don t go crazy. Any windowing system worth it's salt will let you configure certain parts -- and give you access to a shell, so you can circumvent cute icons when you're hot and heavy. I use multivue from time to time, when my brain is too fried to use the characterbased approach. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 6645 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Sep-90 05:32:31 Sb: #6620-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 Paul, at the SD'90 conference, there was a discussion forum called, informally, the "GUI wars." I took the non-GUI side. I won't say whether we won or lost (there was some pretty hefty talent arrayed on our side), but it sure became clear that GUI is not the answer for all problems. When doing something with a GUI interface takes more keystrokes, more time, or more skill than with a keyboard, that's where I draw the line. I have no problem with GUI's in the abstract, and I use a Mac quite a bit for document preparation, and especially slide presentations. Where I start to have a problem is when to have that feature takes up 256K of ROM and about 50% or more of the CPU resources. Sometimes, try doing cp foo*.bak b: on a Mac. Better yet, try addlib foo, which is a BAT file I used to use to: (1) Assemble a subroutine (2) Add the object file to an object library (3) Add the source file to a source library (4) Delete the object and source Jack #: 6586 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-90 03:41:24 Sb: #6569-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin! Re out telecon several weeks ago, does your windowing system also work on tty ports (via rs-232)? Ed #: 6568 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-90 04:30:44 Sb: #6562-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) So have you bought a -K4, Scott? If so, welcome to the club! Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 6571 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-90 14:52:03 Sb: #6568-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Yes I have bought a K4, I think I was one of the first purchasers. There is 1 Reply. #: 6575 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-90 18:58:32 Sb: #6571-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) That's good news, Scott. I'm always happy to see new PT users, mainly because I don't want to be the only one out there with one! (and, also, we need a certain critical mass to get P.D. software circulating). Jack There are 2 Replies. #: 6583 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Sep-90 23:21:06 Sb: #6575-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hey Jack, what do you use your k4 for mostly, business, hobby, etc? There are 3 Replies. #: 6587 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-90 03:46:13 Sb: #6583-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Hi Jack & Scott! Been following your thread - most interesting. I have 2 k4 machines - they are used for business. One machine is for our POS retail system. The second is for applications programming and a back-up for the store system (Haven't had to use it as a back-up yet). My first machine was a k2 purchased about three year ago. The second was purchased about six months later. BTW, I was customer #2 for the first k4 boards - Don't know who customer #1 was - I think he was an industrial user. A VGA board is on its way to me - should have it Monday. Going to be interesting. Now all we need is a wysiwyg word processor. Ed /ex There is 1 Reply. #: 6595 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-90 09:55:28 Sb: #6587-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Sounds interesting, Ed. It's good to hear that people are starting to use them for commercial purposes. For the record, Ron Anderson has been using a K2 (with SK*DOS) for some time to develop software for a wheel-balancing machine. As near as I can make it out, the K2 is actually embedded in the machine. John Spray, the developer of Whimsical, just recently moved from New Zealand to the US, to work with Ron. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 6622 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-90 12:26:18 Sb: #6595-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack, Well, Ed has been using th PT for YEARS for business! Not a bad product, and given Ed's tenacity, he apparently has gotten them to work very nicely for several projects! Glad to have you guys around -- are you all into OSK? Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 6647 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Sep-90 05:32:45 Sb: #6622-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 Paul, I've been using SK*DOS with the PT up till now. The idea of paying as little as $200 for the computer, and then $600 for the OS, never made much sense to me. To tell the truth, when I upgraded to the Pt68-K4, Fred Brown sent me OSK by mistake, thinking I already had it. So since I have the disks, and the price _IS_ quite a bit lower, and it _DOES_ seem to be integrated much better with the PT68 than it used to be, I called Fred and asked him to make me legal and send the manuals. I probably never would have gotten it otherwise. Jack #: 6593 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-90 09:55:16 Sb: #6583-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott, mostly I use the PT-68 as therapy. When I had a CP/M Kaypro, I used it for everything: Word processing (I write articles once in awhile), learning new languages and software techniques (I like to try algorithms and things like that, mostly in Turbo Pascal), and systems software. When I "upgraded" to a PC, I got tools to do the first two, and use the PC for that. But MSDOS is so horrible, I refuse to try to write systems software for it. So the Pt68 is my "hobby" computer. It's simple enough so that I can tinker with it, play with interfaces to the hardware, and write my own systems software. I've been using SK*DOS, which is small and simple as CP/M was. It's a nice system to develop software with, although (Peter Stark's not gonna like me for this) it's sometimes frustrating because of the slow disk I/O. SK*DOS is a clone of Flex, and uses the same chained file structure. Working with SK*DOS has been an adventure because there are virtually _NO_ software development tools. For some time, we didn't even have a screen editor, and the assembler is non-relocating. But gradually we've gotten better tools. I wrote a hex debugger and linker (both have new versions in the works), and John Spray of New Zealand has a wonderful little compiler called Whimsical (not commercially available, so far). There's also an integer C compiler, plus Small C. I got interested in writing translators, and am working on yet another compiler (my own language, called KISS), as well as a couple of preprocessors for the assembler. #: 6594 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-90 09:55:22 Sb: #6583-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Right now, I can't say which way we'll be going with the PT-68. Several of the users are into Minix, and I have that running. I also now have OS-9, but no manuals as yet. Either of those platforms make a lot more sense for software development, than a system where you have to build your own tools. Still, I'll probably continue to play with OS stuff. I have several alternate OS's available, plus I'd like to try my hand at writing a CP/M-like OS. I know, I know, CP/M is obsolete. But it always met my needs pretty well (after I replaced essentially every utility in it!), and it _IS_ fast and small. For me, even Minix or OS-9 are a little too big & complex for my tastes. Jack #: 6621 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-90 12:22:19 Sb: #6575-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack, I don't think you'l have to wait long for PD OSK software. IMS is encouraging our developers to release a lot of their little stuff as PD. So the MM/1 isgoing to give a nice boost to you PT 68K owners! (I have one, too, BTW. It's got Simmy Turner's terminal driver on it and it screams when it scrolls!) But, to be honest, the MM/1 is getting the lion's share of computer time around IMS and the developers. If you read the Business Week mag that's on the stands, you'll see why. Still, a PT with VGA and Kev's windowing would be nice. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 6646 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Sep-90 05:32:38 Sb: #6621-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 Sorry, Paul, I don't grep IMS or MM/1? What are they? And who are you? Jack #: 6611 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Sep-90 21:54:11 Sb: #Osk 2.2 C bugs Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: all In porting C news to os9/68k, I've noticed a couple of bugs in the C compiler that comes with osk 2.2: "string"[0] != 's' sizeof "string" != 6 The first one generates code that does a string derefernce, but does store the string to derefernce. (Two NULs are generated for the string to derefernce.) This bug was fairly easy to work around, I just changed a macro to generate slower smaller code. sizeof a string constant returns 4, rather than the number of chacters in that constant. This bug was much harder to work around, since strlen does not result in a constant. Working around this created much bigger, much uglier, and much slower code. Could someone see if these bugs are fixed in osk 2.3? (Microware hasn't answered their mail.) Are the nasty problems in make fixed? (If anyone is interested in getting usenet on an osk machine, I'll probably be ready for C news/Rn beta testers in a few weeks.) There is 1 Reply. #: 6615 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-90 05:56:06 Sb: #6611-Osk 2.2 C bugs Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 The sizeof() bug has indeed been corrected. #: 6614 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-90 05:26:51 Sb: #TERMCAP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: ALL Does anyone know the termcap entries (codes) for color screens and, is there such a thing as termcap entries for graphics. Also, is there any reference book available describing termcap entries. The only thing I've found regarding termcap is in the OSK C Compiler manual from MW. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 6616 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 09-Sep-90 05:59:26 Sb: #6614-TERMCAP Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Termcap is very much a least-common-denominator thing when it comes to terminal features (but very much a kitchen-sink thing when it comes to bizarrre terminal misfeatures, e.g. the Hazeltine's inability to display tildes). Definitely no graphics. The only references I've seen on termcap are manual pages that all look pretty much alike, and pretty much like what you found in the compiler manual. Sad, but true. #: 6655 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Sep-90 05:49:05 Sb: mm/1 information Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: 73477,2004 Hey Paul, Can you send me sone info/price list for the MM/1. My address is: Scott Howell 4100-D Woodchase Lane Marietta, Ga 30067 Thanks Scott Howell Press !> #: 6660 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Sep-90 07:15:59 Sb: #6655-mm/1 information Fm: Mark B. Sheffield 76247,1332 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 Scott - Paul's out of town right now. I'll drop one in the mail to you this morning - you should have it in a couple of days. Please send your telephone number so we can stay in touch easily. -mark #: 6663 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Sep-90 14:31:57 Sb: #6611-Osk 2.2 C bugs Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 I wasn't aware "string"[0] was broken - I have used that idiom before. It surely isn't in the compiler with osk 2.3. sizeof("string") may be fixed - it returns 7 8-). - Carl #: 6682 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-90 17:40:23 Sb: #6646-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack, You may want to go to the Hot Topics library here and download the specs on the MM/1. IMS is Interactive Media Systems, Inc., a North Carolina corporation that has introduced a popular new 6800x0 based computer system that is being used to develop a lot of stuff that will be of GREAT interest to PT 68kers. My phone number at the DC office is 202 232 4246. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 6699 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Sep-90 06:36:25 Sb: #6682-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 OK, Paul. Will do. I doubt I'll be interested in buying a new computer, since I just bought the PT68-K4, which is working like a champ. But I'm always interested in anything that stimulates the use, and particularly the development of nice software for, the 68000. Thanks for the lead. Jack #: 6683 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-90 17:42:31 Sb: #6647-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack, Well, you're getting the OS about as inexpesively as our customers are. Because we have a pretty big market ready for the machine, we got a good bulk discount. OTOH, no one can beat your price .... ;) Stay tunes here for some pretty neat OSK stuff in the next few months. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 6700 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Sep-90 06:36:30 Sb: #6683-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 Paul, for the record, I _DID_ pay for OS/9. It turned out that PT had sent it to me by mistake, thinking I already had the version for the -K2. So rather than send it back, I went ahead and paid for it. Good price, tho: Just $299. Jack #: 6685 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-90 17:44:22 Sb: #6655-mm/1 information Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Scott -- It's on its way! Thanks for the request. Paul #: 6690 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-90 20:16:17 Sb: #6560-OSK TSmon Fm: Greg Law 72130,23 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Jay, Writing an auto-baud detect TSMon is relatively trivial. The way I handled that on the CoCo was to basically write a standard TSMon. Once that was working the way it should be, I added the CONNECT strings into the vsect and then used a string compare routine. At the very basic level, I had it sit in an I$ReadLn state waiting for a string. Once it gets a string it compares it with CONNECT. If it isn't CONNECT (use a fixed string length compare, like strncmp() in C), throw the string in the trash and loop to the I$ReadLn call. If it is CONNECT, compare the next character for a space or carriage return (or carriage return and line feed). If you have a CR, it's 300 baud. Otherwise, compare for 1200 or 2400. I even set it up so that it sent an initialization string to the modem when it started. There are a couple of gotchas with this method. First and foremost, the 6551 ACIA in the CoCo shuts down the receiver section if DCD or DSR is low. If your modem sends the string before bringing DCD high, it won't work with the 6551 (unless you cheat and strap DCD high). Some modems do it right (bring DCD high and then send the string and, finally, change baud rate to match the caller) while others do it not-so-right (send the string, bring DCD high, and match baud rates). Keep in mind, the reason I send an initialization string to the modem is two-fold. First, it makes absolutely sure we *know* the modem has matched baud rates with us. It will then send all strings at this baud rate. (Nothing like receiving CONNECT 2400 at 1200 baud while ACIAPAK is set for 300 baud. ) Secondly, it helps the user so he knows the modem is setup properly for auto-answer, connect strings, etc. I don't recommend using numeric result codes. The reason is that the codes are 1 or 2 bytes (0 through 15 or whatever) with no carriage returns and ACIAPAK blocks on an I$Read if no data is pending. Is that code a 1 or 10? -- Greg #: 6691 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Sep-90 20:22:06 Sb: #6631-OSK TSmon Fm: Greg Law 72130,23 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Jay, By the way, I don't have the source code to the version of TSMon and TSGo I wrote years ago. But I have placed it in the public domain so feel free to disassemble the executable if you want to see how I did it. Granted, it's not the best in the world but it is very short and should be simple to disassemble. I don't expect it would take more than a couple of hours to write a similar version for OSk. And keep in mind that I wrote TSGo so you could use the KillSwitch in the descriptor. This way all processes with paths open to /t2 will be killed - but since TSGo doesn't have any paths open, it can refork TSMon as needed and keep the system alive. It's also handy for reinitializing the modem and paths to make sure everything is clean for a new round. -- Greg #: 6712 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Sep-90 15:09:38 Sb: #6615-#Osk 2.2 C bugs Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Anyone noticed the 2.3 C compiler generating incorrect code for signed compares to constants? (int) X >= 5 seems to generate the same code as 5 >= (int) x. wrh There is 1 Reply. #: 6713 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Sep-90 17:29:07 Sb: #6712-Osk 2.2 C bugs Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 Trying out a simple "if (x >= 5) arf(); if (5 >= x) arf();" does not display the problem--indeed, if the compiler were that confused, I'd be surprised that much of anything worked at all. When reporting bugs (and reporting them to Microware officially is the best thing to do, lest they get forgotten), example code, made as short as possible to simplify finding and correcting the problem, along with the edition numbers of the software in question, helps a great deal. (Tried again just now in another window, using explicit casts--no difference.) So...I can't duplicate the stated problem, so I can't say that I've noticed that. #: 6718 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Sep-90 21:47:55 Sb: #6560-OSK TSmon Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Greg, While I didn't ask the origional question, I am remotely interested in a TSMON that supports modems for OSK. Some thoughts on programming Hayes "compatible" modems... They will only connect at speeds up to the one they are initialized with. I.e. if you initialize the modem at 1200 BPS, it will NOT connect at 2400 BPS even if the caller is capable of it. I'd just start at 19.2KB and then work downwards until I got an intelligible response and mark that as my maximum speed. I agree that using the text answers from the modem is the way to go. There is no standard for the numeric codes above 1200 BPS. The product ID code (ATI) is useless for determining the type of modem attached since other "compatible" modems don't return the same response that the equivalent Hayes modems do. It is a good idea to send the initialization strings to the modem one at a time instead of grouping them together like "ats0=1V1X4" because we had a (in) "compatible" modem that was sensitive to the ORDER of the commands sent. (I was ready to give the manufacturer a REAL nasty phone call and I *REALLY* wanted to tell the customer to go buy a real modem but the jerks in sales nixed that idea. ) Some modems don't like lower case. Different modems have differing amounts of time needed between lowering/raising signals and sending them a command. Which leads one to the conclusion that there is NO SUCH THING AS A HAYES COMPATIBLE MODEM! (In fact Hayes themselves said this in a large format ad a while back that we programmers gleefully posted on the wall at work in agreement.) While I'd like to have a modem capable TSMON available someday, right now I've got too many irons in the fire to do anything about it myself. Regards, -J #: 6719 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Sep-90 23:44:29 Sb: #6614-#TERMCAP Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) O'reilly has a book on termcap and terminfo. Send email to nuts@ora.com (internet address, I don't remember exactly how to send them from compuserve, but it is possible) or call 800-338-nuts for the current price and title. There is 1 Reply. #: 6724 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Sep-90 03:47:26 Sb: #6719-TERMCAP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) Thanks - will do Ed #: 6729 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Sep-90 10:14:45 Sb: serial ports on the MM/1 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 Paul, Been discussing your favorite topic with a friend in Florida when a question came up I didn't have an answer for: Is there a cap on how many serial ports the MM/1 can support? If I decipher your Insider correctly, it would appear 5 ports are mentioned in one way or another ... but it's not clear if that's all ... or if more can be added. What's the real info? Steve #: 6732 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Sep-90 16:11:22 Sb: OSk Docs Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ALL I was browsing through my new OSK documentation and found that someone at Microware has a sense of humour! In the C Function manual on page 21 is the description of the _julian() function. The synopsis states: int _julian(time,date) int *time, /* pointer to time value */ *date; /* pointer to date value */ Under "Caveats:" it says, "Unless debugging is an obsession, use pointers for date and time values." Zack #: 6767 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Sep-90 00:02:34 Sb: #6660-#mm/1 information Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Mark B. Sheffield 76247,1332 (X) Mark; (and Paul, too) -- got the INSIDER today. Thanks for clearing up the mixup so fast. I've got a few questions tho, after reading theispec sheet : o Does the Extended (I/O board) come with 0K? For some reason, I was under the impression that it came with another meg or so of RAM. o Network interface: is this a proprietary networking scheme, or is it based on an established protocol of some sort? o MIDI interface: same as above (I'm a complete newbie as far as MIDI goes, but am sure I'll be asked if it's a standard implementation). _Really_ looking forward to Thanksgiving this year!!! ;-) ...Jim "I know we're on shaky ground, but it's not MY fault." -- S. Andreas There is 1 Reply. #: 6786 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Sep-90 17:25:17 Sb: #6767-#mm/1 information Fm: Mark B. Sheffield 76247,1332 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Jim - Glad you got the Insider! I'd like to hear your reactions to it, suggestions for other stuff you'd like to see, etc. The extended board comes with 0K, but you can add either 2MB or 8MB worth of SIMMs. The tentative network scheme involves using high-speed serial and NFM (Microware's standard network file manager). Any number of protocols can be implemented on it including Ethernet, Arcnet, etc. MIDI will conform to MIDI spec 1.0. That's as established a protocol as you can get. -mark There is 1 Reply. #: 6832 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Sep-90 01:11:47 Sb: #6786-#mm/1 information Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Mark B. Sheffield 76247,1332 (X) Mark; Thanks for the info on the Net Manager and MIDI. Reaction? Quite well done and produced. First issue had a lot of stuff in it that I already knew from reading msgs. on CIS, but probably invaluable for someone who doesn't have access. What would I like to see? How about my MM/1 on the doorstep after work tomorrow? Oh, you mean in the INSIDER! Well, how about some pix of MVCanvas screens, the GUI, some dope on the utilities that'll be included. I'd like to see some info on things that are in the works regarding software that'll be ported, but I realize that there's some things that can't be discussed until they're a 'done deal'. How about some articles on the MM/1's versatility - a classroom of MM/1's linked together - an MM/1 used as a data acquisition/processing machine - an MM/1 controlling a home environment in the background (heating/cooling/security/lighting). Zat enuf ideas? ...Jim p.s. FWIW - people who attend meetings/rallies/etc. are 'attendees', not 'attendants'. (sorry, couldn't resist ;-) There is 1 Reply. #: 6843 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Sep-90 09:30:27 Sb: #6832-#mm/1 information Fm: Mark B. Sheffield 76247,1332 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 Jim - Thanks for the suggestions. And for the spell-checking. -mark There is 1 Reply. #: 6848 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Sep-90 16:39:27 Sb: #6843-mm/1 information Fm: Joseph Cheek 76264,142 To: Mark B. Sheffield 76247,1332 On the same token, Mark, I received a brochure yestereday in the mail about the MM/1 (it's great! I can't wait to get mine!) I just need to know--I sent in $150 for the preorder, meaning I get $200 off, right? The brochure says 'send me info about what you want and a $150 per mm/1 wanted'. Since I have a $200 credit, do I still need to send in $150? I have that $200 plus about $300 in a month or so for a downpayment--can I get the other $359 paid off in some payment plan? Having my cake and eating it too? (hehe--receive MM/1 now, pay $359 later? Any possible way?) Thanks . .`. #: 6789 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Sep-90 19:30:44 Sb: #header files Fm: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 To: all I am trying to compile mroff from dl6 but it includes os9.h and scfstat.h. Can anyone tell me what is in these or how to compile this with 68000 C. thanks. There are 2 Replies. #: 6792 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Sep-90 20:32:55 Sb: #6789-header files Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 You'll need to look for the system calls that are being made there, and convert them to the corresponding OSK C library call. os9.h is a header that includes a 6809 register image for a call that exists only in the 6809 library. scfstat.h could probably be replaced with sgstat.h; I'd have to look to make sure, though. #: 6813 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Sep-90 15:23:48 Sb: #6789-header files Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Jim Chapman 72557,1120 OS9.H mostly includes the register frame structure for doing OS9 calls, and possibly the codes for OS9 I$ and F$ requests. SCFSTAT contains serially (SCF) oriented parameters (path options, etc.). Pete #: 6927 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Sep-90 16:31:32 Sb: #Atari ST Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Bud - Question on Minix & the ST: is the ST version also restricted to a 64K process space (I believe the PC version of Minix was)? If yes, then OS9 does provide a clear advantage. If no, then both are probably a slick solution, as there is active development in both camps. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7067 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Sep-90 10:07:40 Sb: #6927-#Atari ST Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) 68000 Minix isn't restricted to a 64k process space. Actually, 8086 Minix has a 64K instruction space and a 64K data space in its latest incarnation (I believe). Unfortunately, since the ST doesn't have hardware memory management, and Minix C doesn't produce PIC, so they have to go through all sorts of gyrations to relocate programs in memories and do context switches. Anyhow, Minix is a lot cheaper than OS-9, which means a lot to a hobbyist. For commercial or industrial applications, OS-9 wins hands down. There is 1 Reply. #: 7094 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-90 15:50:36 Sb: #7067-#Atari ST Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Bud - Good info. Sounds like early versions of BSD stuff (2.1 64K I&D spaces).. Too bad about the non-position independence.. is it reentrant at least? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7229 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Oct-90 12:41:26 Sb: #7094-#Atari ST Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) 'Tis reentrant. The kernel is mostly C. wrh There is 1 Reply. #: 7246 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Oct-90 09:29:07 Sb: #7229-#Atari ST Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Bud - Are you saying that it's reentrant by virtue of the fact that it's written in C, or were those two separate pieces of info? C is not inherently reentrant... the compiler must be written to support it. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7335 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Oct-90 12:54:16 Sb: #7246-Atari ST Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) I'm saying it's reentrant because it is the kernel of a multi-tasking operating system and pretty well _has_ to be reentrant. The kernel is reentrant. The kernel is written in C. Therefore, the C compiler can produce reentrant code. wrh #: 7082 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Sep-90 19:28:27 Sb: ##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) ack, I agree -- and I think that many users are behind you. It looks as though DOS will be losing a lot of folks to other OSes -- just that fact alone gives us "dark horse" folks a much bigger chance. Still, I run across people who are INCREDIBLY DOS-arrogant. (Sniff) "Is it MS-DOS compatible? No? (Sniff) Well ..." That's why our machine will read/write/format DOS disks, will hav{ some great DOS programs on it, and so on. Paul There are 2 Replies. #: 7102 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-90 17:55:59 Sb: #7082-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, I wouldn't pick only on MSDOS folks, I've heard the same statement "..is it XXX-compatible..", but with XXX meaning: MSDOS, MAC, Unix, OS9 (!), IBM, DEC etc. Arrogance and single-mindedness is not a trait that MSDOS users can claim as their own! Don't knock MSDOS TOO hard, its not a dead (yet), Windows 3.0 turns MSDOS into something closely resembling a true multitasking OS (granted you need a real powerhouse of a PC to run it, fast 386 processor and lots of memory) but it is a step in the right direction. Its still a single user machine, though (of course...SNIFF! ;-). I'm rambling a bit, but my main point is that the "my thing is bigger/better than your thing" statment rarely holds up to close scrutiny, and tends to p.ss off whoever has whatever you don't. Best bet is to just stick to: "WOW look at what MY thing can do!!". Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 7150 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 08:55:53 Sb: #7102-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, Well, I agreee a GREAT deal with what you say. Boasting is bad, and just annoys people. However, the MM/1 and OSK have some features that are in great demand, and they execute them well. Just a little multitasking and multimedia power -done efficiently -- is what the Mac II and 386 folks want to do. Maybe the way to resolve the boasting problem is to leave the boasting to benefits and features, and not to systems. There are a great many features that the Mac iifx has that we can't compete with (price is one we can't keep up with -- the fx is darn expensive!). And vice versa. So we can't really boast "My MM/1 is better that your iifx!" We CAN say, "My MM/1 multitasks and does multimedia in an effective and efficient way, and although I'd love a 33 MHz 68030, I don't need it to do what the MM/1 does well!" Or something. Anyway, this discussion is moot. People will boast anyway, no matter what we say! Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7163 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 18:31:08 Sb: #7150-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, That's because they'll have something to boast about! I wasn't bashing boasting, but bashing bashing :-) Comparing and contrasting the multitude of different hardware and software systems is very helpful to anyone trying to decide which product to buy. I just get VERY tired of "my system is the best because its a XXX" or "your system is trash because its not a XXX" instead of "my system isn't multiuser, but multitasking, and supports AAA and ZZZ, which fits my needs perfectly, and since your system can't LLL, then I would never consider switching systems". Put a mac owner and an ibm owner together and you'd think that the future of humanity depended on which system was "better" than the other. And we know they're both wrong!! }:-) Bill #: 7134 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Oct-90 20:17:37 Sb: #7082-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, I've been hearing that "Is it XXX compatible" question since 1959! It used to be IBM7090, then it was FORTRAN, then it was Microsoft BASIC, then is was Apple II, then it was CP/M. It seems to be an occupational disease. I _HATE_ it! Jack #: 7111 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-90 23:09:14 Sb: #Humorous OSK Docs Fm: Kim Kempf 76701,65 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Other cute "man" names considered but rejected in the name of sanity. You determine the -MAN: Cache And Virtual Emulator -MAN Write Once -MAN SUPERvisor state -MAN MEGAbyte memory -MAN MEGAbyte memory -MAN (2 meg) Write And LocK -MAN System Protection and Indirect/Direct Extended Relocation - MAN SOCKMAN is the actual name of the Internet socket manager. On the FM11 the mouse manager was MOUSEMAN, the driver was MOUSE and the descriptor was MICKEY. Please contribute your favorite -MANs! There is 1 Reply. #: 7151 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 09:02:28 Sb: #7111-#Humorous OSK Docs Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Kim Kempf 76701,65 (X) Well, how 'bout plain old MailMAN? For us math majors on multimedia WANs, we could have the Multiuser AXess Multimedia INterface-MAN. Or the manager that handles PC specific hardware call trapping in the OS-9000 DOS window -- TANSTAAFL-Man (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch, Man ...) (grin) Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7165 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 19:33:40 Sb: #7151-#Humorous OSK Docs Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Speaking of strings with "man" as a proper suffix...doesn't Bart Simpson emit a lot of those? There is 1 Reply. #: 7200 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Oct-90 06:50:54 Sb: #7165-Humorous OSK Docs Fm: William Phelps 75100,265 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Hey, to speed up calculations we can always use a Binary ARiThmetic -MAN. And a special note to George Bush: Don't have a Catastrophic, Oil War -MAN! William #: 7112 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-90 23:15:49 Sb: #aterm Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Michael Fisher 72320,1233 (X) Mike, The bus error problem on Sterm 1.3 is something that recently came to my attention. Please bear with me as a new version is in the works. Since I didn't have an OSK machine until recently, I never knew of the error until someone else mentioned it. I suppose those that had been using it for some time always did B protocol transfers (grin). Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 7157 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 16:25:10 Sb: #7112-aterm Fm: Michael Fisher 72320,1233 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hi Mark, Thanks for the feedback, I never thought of trying B+ since it hung with xmodem I didn't think there was a chance - not very logical!I luck forward to hearing from you one day re a solution, meanwhile I will try B+ and advise my friend. Mike Fisher - Toronto #: 7164 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 18:49:32 Sb: Sterm Fm: Michael Fisher 72320,1233 To: Mark Griffith/ 76070,41 (X) Hi Mark, I just downloaded three files using sterm with B+ and all was well, thanks.I notice when I am typing a text message in, like now, if I hold a key down and get a key repeat (at least for space or cr ), the ST locks up and I must reboot to get out.Maybe a buffer size problem -or a Mike Fisher or ST problem ? Thanks again - Mike Fisher Toronto. #: 7237 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Oct-90 12:47:55 Sb: #TOP, Munich Edition? Fm: Al Fleagle 72527,1354 To: all I've seen a lot of discussion on the TOP series. Just what is it? Do I need it? There is 1 Reply. #: 7241 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Oct-90 21:55:23 Sb: #7237-TOP, Munich Edition? Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Al Fleagle 72527,1354 (X) Al, The Top stuff is a series of files found in LIB 12 containing loads of utilities and applications for OSK. See TOP6.AR, TOP6A.AR and TOPIND.AR for documentation and Indices (all found in LIB 12). Steve #: 7351 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Oct-90 23:56:42 Sb: #Atari Tape backup Fm: David George 72240,134 To: ALL To all you Atari OSK users. Has anyone hooked up a tape drive yet? I am looking for a tape drive (It now takes about 40 disks to backup my HD), but I don;'t know what tape drives SBF supports. I am running Professional OSK Ver2.2 on a Mega 2. Can I just hook up any SCSI tape drive? Also has anyone written a driver for the Mega Clock or the ICD host adapter clock? The ICD uses SCSI ID#6 for the clock. David George 72240,134 There are 2 Replies. #: 7425 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-90 17:57:11 Sb: #7351-Atari Tape backup Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: David George 72240,134 (X) YOu may wish to ask Carl Kreider or Dave Kaleita. Paul #: 7513 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Oct-90 09:02:28 Sb: #7351-Atari Tape backup Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: David George 72240,134 SBF doesn't care what the tape drive is. You do need a driver, but I don't know anyone that has one. I have a tape running on the 030 but haven't gotten to the ST yet. There are Minix drivers for both tape and the clocks around that might provide an example. I used an Archive 5945C drive and Adaptec 3530 QIC to SCSI adapter. Several people use these on their ST's. The drive is available with SCSI interface (and is 60 meg). The 2150S is a 150 meg SCSI drive. These all would hook up to your ICD adapter. Carl #: 7353 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-90 06:13:54 Sb: #Will OS9 Run on a Mac Fm: C. Paul Bond 72760,2473 To: Paul Will OS9 run on a Macintosh? Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7354 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-90 06:58:38 Sb: #7353-Will OS9 Run on a Mac Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: C. Paul Bond 72760,2473 Yes. Call Ultrascience in Wilmette, Illinois. (I don't have their phone number at hand, or I'd include it.) #: 7402 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-90 23:26:47 Sb: #Help with PT68-K4 OS9 Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: All I've been having a little trouble getting set up with OS9 on the PT68-K4. I'm hoping one of you old hands can help me figure out what's going on. Actually, I got started with OS9 by accident. When I upgraded from the -K2 to a -K4, Peripheral Tech was under the impression that I already had OS9, so they sent me a set of OS9 disks as an upgrade. Being the honest person that I am (and also ready to try OS9), rather than sending the disks back I called and asked that they charge me the price for OS9, and send the manuals. The manuals came with a second, more official-looking set of disks. When I tried to boot, I discovered that the first set of disks (the upgrade set) booted just fine, but the "legal" set has serious problems. It wouldn't boot at all. No problem, says I, I'll use the first set. Everything seemed to go fine at first. The system came up, all the dir, chd, chs, and the obvious stuff worked. Natch, the first step seemed to be to back up the distribution disks. I found that format worked fine, but backup doesn't: I get error 000:232, which indicates a bad CRC. Ironically, I did a cmp of the copy of backup on the first and second sets. The OS9Boot program on the two disks showed beaucoup differences (which I suppose explains why one will boot and the other won't!), but cmp says that the two backups are identical. I called PT, and they sent a replacement set of disks, which arrived today. Got the same problem as the first set. It boots, but backup shows a bad CRC. [More] There is 1 Reply. #: 7403 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-90 23:26:54 Sb: #7402-#Help with PT68-K4 OS9 Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) [Continued] Tonight I called Microware to see what's going on. He showed me how to use "ident" to look at the info on the file. Sure enough, it shows a bad CRC on backup. He also told me that I could back the disks up the hard way, using dsave, so I am not dead in the water, and can go ahead with installation. In the meantime, though, I guess I'd like to know: (a) What's the easiest way to get a copy of backup that works. He suggested having PT send me a copy on a separate disk, but it appears that PT's Master copy is bad. Can I get one from Microware. (b) I saw something in the manual that implied there's a program to recalculate the CRC, I guess for patches. Is this a safe thing to do? (c) Wonder how come the two copies of OS9Boot are different???? Anybody got any thoughts/advice/similar experiences to help me? Thanks. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 7409 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-90 01:09:55 Sb: #7403-Help with PT68-K4 OS9 Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hi Jack (btw, where do you live? might be some help nearby) - The OS9boots are probably different because they added something to one or the other. Do an "ident -q /d0/os9boot" and see what modules are in each disk's os9boot file. Yah, "fixmod -u filename" will update a CRC if you changed the module. However, if you yourself didn't change it on purpose , using fixmod is a bad idea... the CRC being bad indicates that surely something in the module is hosed, and fixmod can't fix that. The CRC is there just to prevent loading such a bad module. Backup - did you get Basic? You could use it or C or asm to write a quick and dirty backup util. The first 3 bytes on any OS9 disk give the number of sectors on that disk. So a simple backup program in Basic would be: PROCEDURE backup DIM count(3),sector(256):BYTE DIM path1,path2,total,x:INTEGER INPUT "from drive name ",source$ INPUT "to drive name ",dest$ OPEN #path1,source$+"@":READ OPEN #path2,dest$+"@":WRITE GET #path1,count total=count(1)*65536.+count(2)*256+count(3) SEEK #path1,0 FOR x=1 TO total GET #path1,sector PUT #path2,sector NEXT x END All that does it to open each disk in raw (full disk) mode (the "@" does that special - like "/d0@")... then go through and copy each sector. Lots of ways to speed this up of course, like doing more bytes at a time. You can also get fancy and get the drive names from the parameter line, etc. Did PT know how much RAM you had, btw? The Init module needs to know that. Does "mfree -e" jibe with your system? best - kev #: 7415 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-90 11:50:19 Sb: #OSK BACKUP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hi Jack! If you haven't checked your mail, please do so. I uploaded 'backup' for you per Fred. He did have a bad copy on his distribution disk. Any more problems, let me know. Ed There are 2 Replies. #: 7442 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-90 20:22:43 Sb: #7415-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Thanks, Ed. I did get the file. Unfortunately, it was downloaded (automatically) by TAPCIS, so is now residing happily on my PC! All I have to do now is to figure out how to get it from PC to OS9. Even more unfortunately, my PC and the PT68 have incompatible disk formats (40-track vs 80), so I can't just copy the file, even if I could read/write DOS disks. I'll try to figure out something. In the meantime, I've been checking the other files and found one more bad one: dcheck. The test hasn't been exhaustive, tho. Let me suggest that I go through all the disks, and make sure there are no more bad ones. Once that's been decided, I can try to copy the files from PC to PT68. Even simpler, it might be best if you would be willing to put them on a disk, if I send you a disk with mailer. Would that be too much trouble? Thanks very much for your help. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 7460 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 04:21:05 Sb: #7442-OSK BACKUP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack! No problem ed #: 7473 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 18:49:08 Sb: #7415-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, I checked all my files from Fred. There are only the two, backup and dcheck, that are bad. If there's some way you could help me get copies, I'd appreciate it. The problem with TAPCIS is that when it sees a message "You have mail," it automatically goes over, gets the mail, and the deletes the message. So I now have backup firmly emplanted on my PC, with no simple way to get it onto an OS9 disk. I can pipe it over via RS-232, except that I haven't installed the cables from Fred yet (of course, that shouldn't take more than 30 minutes or so). Not sure exactly what to do after that. Is there a modem program that comes with OS9, or can you just pipe a file from the serial port? Simplest thing, still, if you have an 80-track drive, may be just to put the darned things on disk. I'll reimburse you for the disk, natch. Thanks very much for your help. As long as I have your attention, I plan to install OS9 on my HD along with SK*DOS and Minix, and perhaps partitions for CP/M-68K and K-OS, as well. Any suggestions as to how best to organize this? I talked to Fred, but he doesn't know of anyone who's tried more than the two OS's (SK*DOS and OS9). Best, Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 7492 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 22:30:46 Sb: #7473-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack, You should be able to disable any forum in TAPCIS (including mail which is a special kind of forum.) Then you can log on directly or from OS9 and download the file. Check out STERM for a really good, simple (the S in Sterm stands for simple) terminal program with the best file trasfer protocol on CompuServe, B-protocol. There should be an OSK version in LIB 12. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 7535 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Oct-90 19:15:23 Sb: #7492-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Yeah, I know, Bill. It's just that I didn't know that Ed's binary file was coming until it came. So by the time I knew about it, TAPCIS had downloaded the binary into my PC, and then deleted the file from CIS. Actually, even if it hadn't, it wouldn't do me much good without a modem program like the STERM program you mention. I think the best deal is to see if I can talk Ed into sending me a hard (as in vinyl) copy. Thanks for the lead on STERM, tho. I'll definitely be needing something like that soon. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 7590 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Oct-90 05:44:37 Sb: #7535-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hi Jack! Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. I didn't have your address, so when I was talking to Carol (at PT), I told her of your problem - she said they will send you replacements - you should receive them shortly. It turned out that the disk they were using to copy from was damaged. They went back to the master and made new copies. Any more problems, just yell. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 7623 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Oct-90 05:25:04 Sb: #7590-OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Thanks very much, Ed. I'll be looking for the (fourth!) disk from PT. I've talked to Carol many times, and she's always very helpful. I think they don't quite know what to make of me. It seems that if Murphy's law ever shows its ugly head, it's always with _MY_ orders. Anyhow, thanks again for your help. I see by reading some of the msgs between Paul, Frank, Kevin, and you re the Fest that you seem to have become the de facto PT spokesman, or chairman of the PT User's group, or something. Is that reasonably accurate? If so, have you ever considered making it official? We have an SK*DOS User's Group, and Peter Stark's BBS. But Peter's BBS is, naturally, devoted mainly to SK*DOS, although he has very kindly allowed us a section to talk about Minix and other OS's in general. As for the User's Group, the president, Sidney Thompson, seems to have disappeared into that black hole called Minix, and may never be seen again. (I'm semi-kidding .. I understand that Sidney's on reserve duty at the moment, which I reckon is a pretty fair excuse, but prior to that his involvement with SK*DOS had tapered off once Minix showed up.) Anyhow, a PT User's Group would be a nice thing to have around. Do you know Ron Anderson? He and I, and a few other PT users, get together by mail once in awhile. Other than that, and Peter's occassional newsletter, it's tough to get much info as to what the other guys are doing. Jack #: 7439 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-90 20:05:52 Sb: #Disk ID change Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: all I have a bunch of binary floppy disk images out on my hard disk. I can use FHL's "fu" program to write one of these disk images out to a floppy disk - this works just fine. I then changed my ramdisk to be the same size as the floppy disk. I then used "fu" to copy the floppy image out to the ramdisk. When I attempt a dir or chd to the ramdisk I get this nifty message: "Error #000:251 (E$DIDC) Disk ID change. RBF copies the disk ID number (from sector zero) into the path descriptor of each path when it is opened. If this does not agree with the driver's current disk ID, this error is returned. The driver updates the current disk ID only when sector zero is read; it is therefore possible to swap disks without RBF noticing. This check helps to prevent that possibility." This is ok, but I just wrote a new image to the ramdisk on purpose! How do I get RBF to temporarily ignore this "disk ID change?" There is 1 Reply. #: 7456 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 02:00:49 Sb: #7439-#Disk ID change Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Jay - that IS strange... as a new chd/chx should open its own temp path and take the new ID number in stride. Do you give a full pathname (/r0?). kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7461 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 06:01:30 Sb: #7456-#Disk ID change Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Yes. "dir /r0" and "chd /r0" both failed. I can "fu" the disk image to the ramdisk in about two seconds versus the gizillion seconds it takes to fu the image to floppy although I think I can reduce the floppy time by messing with the interleave a bit but it won't get anywhere close to the two seconds! There are 2 Replies. #: 7474 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 19:55:13 Sb: #7461-Disk ID change Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Hmm. I wonder if that ramdisk always makes up a hardcoded disk id or something along those lines? It must, or you'd be okay. Well, the only thing I can think of to do is this: read and save the original ramdisk ID, then do the fu, then rewrite the disk ID in LSN 0 (if you can). The ID is at offset $0E-0F in LSN 0. May not work even tho opening a disk raw (@) bypasses some checks, but it's worth a shot! #: 7484 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 22:01:50 Sb: #7461-#Disk ID change Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Kevin, I just happened to have a couple of BASIC programs that save and restore LSN0. Disk ID of the virgin ramdisk was zero, disk ID of the "new" ramdisk image wasn't. I wrote a very short procedure file that calls "dmp" (from the UG disks or here, I forget where I got it) to set the ramdisk's ID back to zero. Works like a champ and takes a mere four seconds or so! Thanks for the help, I was just curious why the ramdisk returned the error and the floppy didn't! -J There is 1 Reply. #: 7489 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 22:25:15 Sb: #7484-#Disk ID change Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Jay - excellent! I was checking my flowcharts of RBF (not very clear or new ones, either) and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. But doesn't the ramdisk "self-format" itself? That was the clue, I think... and perhaps its driver also hardcodes that ID number. Time to take it apart and change it... (any volunteers? :-). Just a guess, tho. Glad it works! best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7522 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Oct-90 13:58:18 Sb: #7489-Disk ID change Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) I believe that it does "self format" as you don't have to do anything to it other than load and link the descriptor to be able to use it. #: 7472 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 18:46:00 Sb: #Visit Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 To: Paul K. Ward Paul, (or maybe Kevin Darling) I'll be in Raleigh this weekend visiting a friend. Would it be possible for me to drop by and see an MM1 in person on Saturday? Hugo Bueno There is 1 Reply. #: 7497 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 22:47:09 Sb: #7472-#Visit Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 (X) Hugo, Sure! Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7532 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Oct-90 18:21:39 Sb: #7497-#Visit Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) OK, how do we go about this? Just show up? I'd need an address (and time if necessary). Thanks, I much appreciate the opportunity! Hugo There is 1 Reply. #: 7564 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Oct-90 18:07:05 Sb: #7532-Visit Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 (X) Leave Kev a note! After 1:00 pm would be best! Paul #: 7661 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-90 16:25:37 Sb: #7623-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hi Jack! You've got some interesting ideas - send me your voice line number and hours you can be reached. I'd like to talk to you further. I like the idea of a PT users group. But, I have reservations about my taking the lead. I think that such a group should be totally independent of any person or organization having a financial interest in the product. It is too hard to remain _totally_ objective. I am handling the national sales for PT for the SYSTEM IV (PT68K4). Maybe you can take on the leadership role - at least temporarily. I can help and if necessary, act as a focal point. Or, you might want to talk to Dan Farnsworth in Florida. Re a BBS, I'd be happy to set one up. I do have the phone lines and hardware necessary but I lack the software. Do you know of a good BBS program that runs on under OSK? And, it may be possible to set-up something here on the OS9 forum or on CIS. (Wayne, will you allow non-OS9 discussions and a library in this forum?) I'm sure you are aware of the OSKer. This is intended to support OS9/68000. I don't know whether Scott will accept articles that are non-OS9. There are 3 Replies. #: 7662 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-90 16:26:40 Sb: #7661-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) (Continued) You may want to contact Jim Destafeno at 1-302-492-8511. (Jim's out of town until Saturday.) He is planning a newsletter/magazine devoted to hardware and operating systems that don't have good publications of their own. (Dan Farnsworth's idea.) Fred has agreed to give him his mailing list and I think he is in touch with Peter Stark re incorporating his newsletter. I'm sure Jim will support a PT user's group in his periodical. I believe he's planning on the first issue coming out the beginning of the year. I've heard of Ron Anderson but haven't talked to him. Do you have his phone number? And, I'd like to join your group if I may. You can reach me at 302-378-2555 from about 4 AM to about 7 or 8 PM. When I come home, I usually crash. Besides, my wife won't let me have a computer at home :-)!! Ed (Gresick - DELMAR CO) There is 1 Reply. #: 7670 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-90 19:56:39 Sb: #7662-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) That's _VERY_ interesting about Jim Destafeno. I'll try to get him. There's a definite need for such a newsletter since the demise of MicroC. They used to cover a lot of the oddball systems, languages, etc. Re Ron Anderson: I can't lay my hands on a number, but you can reach him at 3540 Sturbridge Ct. Ann Arbor, MI 48105 Ron's a really nice guy, and we communicate often. As a matter of fact, I've talked at one time or another, either by phone or mail, with most of the guys involved in 68000 stuff. That includes Ron, Dan Farnsworth, Jim Jones (of RBASIC fame), Sidney Thompson, Peter Stark, and Bud Pass. Also John Spray. Don't know if you know John, but he wrote a delightful little language and compiler called Whimsical. It's Pascal-like, but simpler, and compiles at the speed of light. Ron and I are both in love with it. John lived in New Zealand, and Ron actually flew there to meet him. Ron rewrote all of his software from whatever the Flex language was (PL?) to Whimsical. One of the things that impresses me about it is the tiny object files. There is virtually no run-time library, so programs can be really small ... the lower limit is ZERO bytes. John just moved from New Zealand to Ann Arbor (!) to work with Ron. Most of the guys seem extremely nice. Dan Farnsworth seems nice, but a little strange. Bud Pass is not nice. [More] There is 1 Reply. #: 7671 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-90 19:56:52 Sb: #7670-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) [Continued] Oh, yeah. Forgot to mention Mike Evenson. Mike runs a BBS for 68K stuff from Texas. He's very nice and helpful, also. Lately, though, Mike and his BBS have been almost exclusively devoted to Minix. He's put an incredible amount of work into it (with no rewards in sight) and has it pretty much down to a cookbook installation. More on OS's: I seem to have somehow become a collector. I mentioned somewhere on CIS that I wished I could get CP/M for the 68000. Turns out there's a company that still sells it, and I bought a copy. It has to be installed with a custom BIOS, and I haven't got around to that, yet. It comes with the necessary tools, including a PC-based cross-assembler to help build the BIOS. Before that, Sidney Thompson recommended me to Joe Bartel of Hawthorne Industries, who developed K-OS for his Tiny Giant 68008 system. He wanted me to port K-OS to the PT. I was in the middle of an article and the linker at the time, so I told him I couldn't do it right away. He said that was OK, and sent me the system and PC-based tools. Later on, I heard that Joe and Hawthorne sort of lost interest in the whole thing. They got some kind of big government contract to build hardware, so they dropped the TG and K-OS, but I still have the software. So I find myself in this funny position of having the possibility of not one, but _FIVE_ OS's running on my machine, not counting the one I want to write myself! All I need to to is to find the time to install them all! Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 7695 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-90 17:27:47 Sb: #7671-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hi Jack! I looked over your activities and estimated your times - I see only 24 3/4 hours a day being used. What are you doing with the other 15 minutes? But I guess we can't have brain explosions - too messy! Re the BBS - I did not mean to infer that the BBS be restricted to OS9. Rather, I run OS9 exclusively and need a BBS that will run under it. The board should be wide open to any and all PT users regardless of the OS. OSKer is published by - Scott Griepentrog StG Computers, Inc. PO Box 24285 Speedway, IN 46224 A Subscription is $12.00 per year. Scott is on this forum. You might leave him a message. He may send you a sample issue. I'm familar with some of the names you mentioned but you also came up with some new ones. I'm fascinated with some of the other OS's. One of these days I'd like to play around with some of them. Kevin Darling mentioned one point re the OS9 UG which has been a problem. That is maintaining one central address regardless of who is the leader. As I said before, I can provide a focal point and provide a base address. And (most of the time) we have the necessary help to handle the more mundane tasks. You have a good knowledge of the members of this community - maybe you can get one of the others to take on the leadership role. If absolutely necessary, I am willing to try and organize things but I still feel it would be better if someone else undertook this role. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO There is 1 Reply. #: 7701 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-90 20:21:49 Sb: #7695-OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Well, I'd sure like to see a Pt68 UG, and I'll do what I can to help. I just don't know if I'm ready for another job in the job jar. Thanks for the lead on OSKer. Do you have Scott's PPN? Jack #: 7668 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-90 19:56:23 Sb: #7661-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, my address is 1220 E. Idlewild Ave. Phone (813) 539-3995 (days) Tampa, Fla. 33604 (813) 237-0537 (nights) If you call at home, you'll get the answering machine. We leave it on all the time to screen the crank calls and siding salemen. So don't hang up too soon. I'd love to lead a PT user's group, but I'm afraid my job jar is slap full. Right now I'm: o Designing my own computer language o Writing two articles for Computer Language magazine o Writing a tutorial series on compilers (now entering third year!) o Just signed to write a book on the same subject o Writing a paper for Software Development '91 o Developing new versions of my two tools for SK*DOS (debugger and linker) o Developing one new one (an assembler preprocessor) o Thinking about the next step, which is a relocating assembler & linker o Dreaming of writing my own OS o Serving as program chairman for the local ACM chapter If I take on one more job, I think my brain might explode! One thing: If there _IS_ a PT-related BBS, I'd rather _NOT_ see it devoted to one OS like OS9, but roughly split. There's a growing group of Minix users. Maybe I could interest one of Peter's BBS regulars. I'll try. [More] There is 1 Reply. #: 7669 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-90 19:56:28 Sb: #7668-OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) [Continued] Re the OSKer: No, I wasn't aware of it. I'm a rank neophyte with OS9, although I'm familiar with Unix, Minix, and their grandaddy, Multics. Jack #: 7683 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-90 21:51:18 Sb: #7661-OSK BACKUP Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed - > I like the idea of a PT users group. But, I have reservations about > my taking the lead. I think that such a group should be totally > independent of any person or organization having a financial interest > in the product. It is too hard to remain _totally_ objective. My recommendation is that you _do_ take the lead. First, it'd be about specific hardware, which means there's not much need to be objective. Well, perhaps any newsletter _would_ need to have a "non-censored" letters section in case someone differed badly with your opinions . But more importantly, the OS9 UG experience was that an independent group can run into difficulties: the worst of which is any changing of base addresses. When its maildrop changed from Des Moines to Florida, for example, it took well over a _year_ to straighten out the delayed mail going to the wrong place. Changing to yet another address is almost out of the question because of that one experience. The best address would've been at MW, to be honest. Also, you'd be in a better position to have a full list of PT owners. Etc. Whether you ended up with your own BBS, or using CIS or whatever, it'd still be better off with _you_ being the core backer (or at least, contact address) of any PT UG. Anyway, that's my feeling right now. best - kev #: 7674 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-90 20:15:54 Sb: #7564-#Visit Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Unfortunately, events conspired to take me to Wilmington the day after I arrived in Raleigh. Was your intent for me to bug Kevin Darling or do you have an office in town? Hugo There is 1 Reply. #: 7679 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Oct-90 21:02:50 Sb: #7674-Visit Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 (X) Hugo, No, we don't have an office in Raleigh. We have an office in Davidson and in DC. Paul #: 7690 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-90 12:18:56 Sb: #need help on C program Fm: MAS 76336,3226 To: sysop (X) Hi there, I am porting a Unix C program onto a os-9/68000 machine, and I have some problems in porting some terminal functions. How can I disable echoing on the scre screen? (like when accepting a password), and how to issue a clear screen command ( on a vt100) terminal. Thanks a lot. Robert CHEN. There are 3 Replies. #: 7691 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-90 13:59:56 Sb: #7690-need help on C program Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: MAS 76336,3226 (X) Robert - You would do the OS9 equivalent of an IOCTL... a GETSTAT or SETSTAT. There are C functions in the library to do this. You want '_gs_opt()'. Use a getstat of _gs_opt to capture a copy of the path options. In fact, you should keep two copies. Toggle the ECHO flag in the path options (see your tech reference manual for structure of the path options.. or see sgbuf.h or sgtty.h) and then turn around and send it back to that open path. When done, send the virgin copy of the options buffer (or just toggle the ECHO flag back on). Pete #: 7692 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-90 14:42:59 Sb: #7690-need help on C program Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: MAS 76336,3226 (X) Robert, If you download the Stevie source code, you will see sample code to do exactly what you want. Just grep for the "_gs_opt()" and _ss_opt() functions Pete referred to. Luck Mark #: 7694 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-90 14:54:53 Sb: #7690-need help on C program Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: MAS 76336,3226 (X) Robert, As far as issuing commands to a specific terminal, you really need to study the entire section on the termcap library in the back of the Microware manuals and use those to do it. This will keep you from creating code that only works on one type of terminal. STevie also has sample code for this. If you need help understanding termcap (I did), just holler. Mark #: 7708 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Oct-90 22:06:33 Sb: #7513-#Atari Tape backup Fm: David George 72240,134 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) You said that I need a driver, but also said that "several people use these on their ST's". Does using the Archive 5954C with the Adaptec 3530 require a special driver? If so do you know what they (the other people) are using for drivers on their ST's? David There is 1 Reply. #: 7719 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-90 07:51:13 Sb: #7708-#Atari Tape backup Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: David George 72240,134 (X) I don't know about ICD, but BMS has software for TOS for their adapter. A driver xists for Minix too. For OSK, you have to write your own or find someone who has. My comment about others using the Archive/Adaptec combination refered to the feasibility of hooking them up. Those folks are running other operating systems than OSK. Writing an OSK driver is still on my list, but I really don't know when I will get to it. There is 1 Reply. #: 7904 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Oct-90 21:36:53 Sb: #7719-Atari Tape backup Fm: David George 72240,134 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 OH OK. Thanks for the info. I talked to Microware and they said they offer a SCSI Tape package. The tape support that does come with the Atari is for the Ciprico Tapemaster 3000. #: 7735 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Oct-90 21:34:40 Sb: #Learning the hard way Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: 73477,2004 (X) Paul! TUT-TUT do I detect another direct mention of a competitor's product by name (MAC and AMIGA) in some recent msgs of yours? Good thing for you those guys dont sign on here or you'd have the REALLY BIG boys on your case! There is 1 Reply. #: 7750 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-90 15:35:07 Sb: #7735-#Learning the hard way Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Greg, Are you serious? Are you saying that we can't continue comparing the benefits of OSK to AmigaDOS or MacOS, as we always have? This is an interesting twist on the idea that our comments as vendors be polite to our competitors -- the "politesse" needs now to be extended to every computer manufacturer! Wow! I think maybe this is a SIGN. OSK is on the way to playing in the Big Ball Park. Then again, maybe not. Depends on the hard work we do here! What do you think, Greg? Paul Interactive Media Systems, Inc. There are 2 Replies. #: 7760 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 25-Oct-90 18:03:16 Sb: #7750-Learning the hard way Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 I think Greg was playing with your head . But maybe not. #: 7844 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 16:21:17 Sb: #7750-Learning the hard way Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 All I'm saying Paul is that of course any mfg can tout the benefits of his products, such as multi-tasking or pic or response time. Users can usually get away with saying things like my X eats your Y for lunch. Presidents of companies have to be more careful! "Negative campaigning" is a two edged sword that can backfire unless you are 100% certain of your facts and they are stated as facts not opinions. anyway I'm out of mydepth here so that's the last i'll say on the subject! #: 7780 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Oct-90 15:25:03 Sb: #Help with C Fm: MAS 76336,3226 To: sysop (X) Hello there, Thanks again for the tips on gs_opt, I have another question on Os9 C programming. In order to port our UNIX Telnet-server implementation from SUN to OS-9 we have to find out how to create and access a login shell a login shell from within an OS-9 program. On UNIX we proceed as follow: 1) In the main program we create 2 pipes: p1 and p2. 2) The main programs forks. 3) The parent (continuation of main) closes the reading end of p1 and closes the writing end of p2. 4) The child closes the writing end of p1 and closes the reading end of p2; redirects its standard input to read from p1 (close (0), dup(p1)), redirects its standard output to write to p2 (close (1), dup(p2)); replaces the current child process with a login shell process (execl(.)). The parent program now controls a login shell through the p1 and p2 pipes. Fork() and pipe() are very different on OS-9! Could you give us some hints on how to create and access a login shell from within an OS-9 program? Thanks in advance! Robert CHENd There are 2 Replies. #: 7782 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Oct-90 17:09:32 Sb: #7780-Help with C Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: MAS 76336,3226 (X) Hi Robert - I'm no UNIX guru, and others here may come up with a totally different way of handling a login shell startup for you... but I think I can help some on at least how pipes/forks are handled: Under OS9, child processes inherit at least the parent's standard three paths (in, out, err) at Fork time. I believe under OS9/68K (OSK) you can change that number, but we'll ignore that for now. Therefore the trick is to have the parent process redirect any of those paths _before_ forking a child. One sequence might be: open pipe:(p0) /* parent opens two pipe paths open pipe:(p1) dup (0):(save0) /* parent saves copy of stdin/out for later dup (1):(save1) close (0), dup(p0) /* redirect parent's stdin/out to pipes close (1), dup(p1) fork child /* child starts up; inherits pipes as stdin/out close (0), dup(save0) /* parent resets its original stdin/out close (save0) and closes copies close (1), dup(save1) close (save1) ... write (p0) /* parent uses pipe paths to comm with child read (p1) In this way, children don't have to know about redirection (altho they could use gs_opts to check path device types, if wished). best - kev #: 7784 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Oct-90 18:09:48 Sb: #7780-Help with C Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: MAS 76336,3226 (X) Things differ between OS-9/6809 and OS-9/68000. Children only inherit the standard paths under OS-9/6809 (0, 1, 2), while under OS-9/68000, the parent can tell the system to have the child inherit the first n paths. As you've already noticed, F$Fork is very definitely *not* Unix fork(). Copying all that state information is expensive! Admittedly it calls for a bit of footwork with dup(), open(), and close(), but it can be done--I think there is a file in a DL that describes it. #: 7789 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Oct-90 07:44:40 Sb: #Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: all I've just finished installing OS-9/68K V2.1 on an old Atari-ST and now I'm looking for a way to move source code over to it. Can someone suggest a way to bootstrap a terminal program onto the ST so that I can use a protocol like XMODEM or Kermit to transfer files? Alternatively, a program that would read MS-DOS disks would do. Any suggestions? There are 2 Replies. #: 7791 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Oct-90 08:18:18 Sb: #7789-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Try STerm. It is compatable with OSK at the source level, or so I'm told. There is 1 Reply. #: 7797 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Oct-90 11:12:21 Sb: #7791-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) Okay, how do I get STerm onto my ST? Can I just capture the source code and recompile? There is 1 Reply. #: 7832 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 09:50:20 Sb: #7797-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) I think it is already in the OSK lib.If not, isn't ar compatable with Level2 and OSK? If so, then download the L2 archive, dearc it, and re-compile it. Zack #: 7799 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Oct-90 13:32:48 Sb: #7789-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Dave - if you still have your CoCo, I it could be used to write some ST disks... umm, and I think the ST will also read coco disks with the drive descriptor changed. I take it there's no COM program on the ST/OS9? No, I guess that wasn't included back then. Okay, go to Lib 12 here and download (and list on your PC) the file BT.BAS which is intended to bootstrap yourself up on an ST. Once you get going, also get STCIOW.AR and WINDOW.AR, which'll also give you back multiple screens (a la coco) on the ST, which can be handy. Gotta run. Will check back with more ideas. - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7801 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Oct-90 14:05:30 Sb: #7799-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) I downloaded 'kermit.sr' from BIX and copied that to the ST using the 'copy /t1 kermit.sr' command, then converted using 'exbin'. Now, I've got kermit running. I used that to transfer the file 'sterm1.3' that I downloaded from here. It works, except that I get a bus error when I try to do an xmodem transfer. I also downloaded 'stciow.ar' and 'window.ar' from here. I'll try transfering them with kermit later today. Thanks for your help! David There is 1 Reply. #: 7826 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 07:45:57 Sb: #7801-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Hmmm... Things get stranger. I used kermit to transfer sterm1.3 successfully, but now I can't get it to transfer *anything*. Is there some reason why it would work once but never again? Is there a problme with the serial driver in version 2.1? There is 1 Reply. #: 7830 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 08:59:23 Sb: #7826-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Hmm... if you're always xmode'd at the same baud rate on that port, I'd go ahead and "iniz" it on startup, so that the driver's init/term routines don't get called each time you use it. Not positive, but I think that helps prevent serial probs on the ST. Dunno about now, but the ST version used to use a lot of the ST BIOS ROM routines. Is this during same boot? Or after the machine was off for a while? Or? ST's tend to have heat problems too. This a Mega or old-style ST? On the oldstyle, I took off the internal RF shield to let the heat get out better. Worked wonders on preventing flakiness. There are 2 Replies. #: 7839 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 12:46:08 Sb: #7830-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) I think I see what the problem is. The first time I used kermit, I did an 'iniz' on T1. The second time I didn't (and I had rebooted). Given that, I'm surprised it worked at all. Don't you need to iniz a device before using it? I'm using a Mega ST4 with an Atari 20MB hard disk. Do they have heat problems? On another note, I finally got 'ar68.bin' transfered to my machine. Now what do I do with it. I had expected it to be directly executable, but ident seems to think it isn't an executable file. Do I need to run some sort of conversion program on it first? Thanks for all your help! David Betz There are 3 Replies. #: 7841 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 13:57:40 Sb: #7839-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) David - When files are imported (other than from floppy), they typically don't have execute permission. Try setting the attributes: attr ar68.bin e pe Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7866 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 19:53:30 Sb: #7841-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) I tried that. It didn't work. Apparently, the file got munged somewhere in the transfer process. Not surprising since I downloaded it on my MS-DOS machine, then transfered it to a Macintosh with the Apple File Exchange program, then kermited it over to the ST. Unfortunately, I can't try it again since I can't get kermit to work again. Thanks for the suggestion though. There is 1 Reply. #: 7895 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Oct-90 11:30:48 Sb: #7866-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Hmm - odd. Does 'ident kermit' show a bad CRC? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7897 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Oct-90 18:12:33 Sb: #7895-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) No, 'ident' shows a good CRC. Kermit runs. It just fails after the first few blocks have been transfered. In fact, the failure isn't noticed on the ST, just on the Macintosh that I'm using to transfer the files (using RedRyder on the M Mac). There is 1 Reply. #: 7903 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Oct-90 21:29:11 Sb: #7897-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Hmm... just for grins, is the serial port Xmode'd to all 0's (except the baud, init byte, and EOR)? Is Xon/Xoff enabled? Try running kermit with the debug option(s) on. I believe the more -d's you use, the chattier it gets. At least that's the case for C-Kermit (Unix). I believe OS9 Kermit also has a chattier mode. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7914 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Oct-90 11:04:09 Sb: #7903-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think the Mac version of kermit has a way to turn on debugging mode, but the OS-9 version does. I'll try that. #: 7849 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 16:50:12 Sb: #7839-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Yes, ar68.bin should be executable. To add execution permissions under OSK: attr filename -e -pe (unlike os9/6809, all osk options begin with "-". Type "attr -?" to see help. That goes for all commands, btw). If ident won't work on it then, try "dump filename" and see if the first two bytes aren't $4AFC, which is the header for OSK modules. No? Perhaps you transferred it over in 7-bit mode? Kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7868 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 19:57:11 Sb: #7849-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) I suppose I could have transfered it in ASCII mode. I specified the 'i' switch to Kermit, but I know at least one version of Kermit where 'i' means "suppress image mode". Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get kermit to work again, so I can't try leaving out the 'i'. #: 7851 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 17:21:10 Sb: #7839-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) In theory, at least, if a device hasn't been initialized, it is initialized when a path is opened to it. If it hasn't been explicitly initialized, it is uninitialized when the last path open to it is closed. It may be that the Atari serial device driver routines for initialization or termination are buggy. #: 7840 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 13:09:09 Sb: #7830-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Well, I tried doing the following: xmode /t1 baud=4800 iniz t1 Then I tried a kermit transfer and it failed after a few blocks. So, I decided to try a lower baud rate. I did this with the following commands: deiniz t1 xmode /t1 baud=2400 iniz t1 That sequence of commands crashed my machine. Or, to be precise, it locked up the console. I don't know if OS-9 was still running. Now, I'm beginning to remember why I abandoned OS-9 ages ago. This ST port doesn't seem to be the most robust software around. Does anyone know if there is a patch that will make the serial driver more reliable? Thanks! David There is 1 Reply. #: 7850 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 16:50:36 Sb: #7840-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) No, you shouldn't need to iniz a device before using it. Just using it does that for you. When you stop using it, it deiniz's automatically. Most OS9 ports are extremely robust. This one was just a bit strange in birth. The original ST port was a 3td party strange-o thingie (I think the latest version from MW is much changed - not sure about that), which used some of the ST ROM code. I haven't used its serial port that much myself, while some others do so all the time (for remote logins). But yes, there seems to be a problem in the way the driver terminates itself (this is a casual guess). I don't know if anyone has tracked it down. Carl Kreider might know, or the guys down at Florida State music department. I'll ask around; and/or find someone to look at it. No idea if the Megas had heat problems, altho I often hear that many STs need to have all the chips pushed down in their sockets once in a while. The ST I use does have a Supra HD heat problem... I have to warm it up for ten minutes before using it. The ST workmanship was one reason for building the new 68K machines instead of using those already out there. best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7869 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 20:00:02 Sb: #7850-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) One thing that I've determined is that if I type 'deiniz t1' too many times, I hang the machine. I assume this isn't normal behavior. BTW, I'm not drawing the conclusion that OS-9 itself is buggy, only that this version that I'm trying to use is. Unfortunately, it's frustrating to be so close, but still not have a system to work with. Anyway, thanks for all your help. I'll keep plugging away... There are 2 Replies. #: 7872 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 20:36:50 Sb: #7869-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Yah, it's too bad v2.3 costs so much for the ST. I'll take a look in the next coupla days at that driver. Maybe it's something obvious. There is 1 Reply. #: 7875 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 21:13:32 Sb: #7872-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Thanks, Kevin. There is 1 Reply. #: 7884 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 29-Oct-90 01:42:46 Sb: #7875-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Only got a chance to take a quick look so far.. but it sets up TWO interrupt vectors. Need now to look at the ST BIOS to see why there's separate input and output vectors, and what might cause troubles. Umm, that is, there are 2 OS9 interrupt entries set up, using the BIOS ROM routines. Perhaps different STs had different routines, and so some people have worse trouble than others? This is one reason why there's been a (tiny) movement to rewrite all the drivers from scratch, without using any ROM code at all from the ST. I wonder if MW did that in v2.3? Dunno. No need to reply... I'll keep you updated. #: 7874 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 28-Oct-90 20:41:31 Sb: #7869-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Oh yeah... sidenote: I believe that if you type "deiniz xx" one more time than necessary, then what actually happens is that the device is iniz'd and deiniz'd. I'm pretty sure this is what happens, so maybe the initialize routine is the culprit instead. Seems like I do recall someone mentioning changing baud rates as a sure way to get into trouble... but that must be using tmode on the path desc while inside a term program. In any case, definitely something wrong here. #: 7998 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 04-Nov-90 22:16:03 Sb: #Atari ST RS232 info Fm: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin- saw your activity on the Atari ST RS232 problems (STSIO), and had some info I thought I'd pass on. From discussion(s) with Bill Brady about a year ago I recall mention of a problem(feature) he had heard of with the 68901 from Motorola. As I recall there was a addendum to the spec sheets that said you had to clear the data registers after changing the setup(or some such thing). You might want to give him a shout. Other info- the 68901 has (4) interrupt vectors dedicated to the USART $9-xmit error, $A-Xmit Empty, $B-Rcv error, and $C-Rcv Full. Also Atari uses (3) GPIP ports for CTS,DCD, and ring. The driver STSIO uses Xmit Empty and Rcv Full and disables xmit error. Haven't looked deep, but it appears to rely on ROM routines for XON/XOFF and ???? Hope this is of some help. ps. any luck with def files for the (tiny) effort. Bill Healton There is 1 Reply. #: 8007 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Nov-90 04:16:30 Sb: #7998-Atari ST RS232 info Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 (X) Bill - thanks! Could very well be something simple such as needing to clear a data reg... I'll ask Bill B about this. Yah, got some stuff to send you soon! - kev #: 8109 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Nov-90 21:49:04 Sb: #OSK module patching Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 To: all What are the suggestions here for how to patch existing OSK memory modules with additional code that increases the module size. Generally the executable code portion of the module is in the middle of the module. How best to open up the executable portion for more code, or whatever? I'm assuming that I'd rather work for some standalone solution, not Traps for instance. How do folks least painfully work on the code? Run through a dissasemmbler/assembler? Use some unknown OSK binary editor directly? Use MW debug in some fashion? Any favorite ideas. Thanks - T.J. Martin There are 2 Replies. #: 8112 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 10-Nov-90 22:39:22 Sb: #8109-OSK module patching Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) MW debug can be used. Generally it is best to go from source and re-compile. Robert #: 8119 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Nov-90 15:35:35 Sb: #8109-OSK module patching Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611 (X) Tim - If you're patching at all, then you must have already figured out at least a tiny bit of the offending code already. How large is the module? I guess it depends on the tools you have, and what you're patching. When I first started patching, I simply assembled the extra code.. which I then merged onto the _end_ of the module in question... plus a few extra bytes where a new CRC would be made, using Verify. Obviously I also used debug (or a program) to change some of the old code to jump to the new routines. This method is relatively quick and easy. Nowadays, I disasm the whole thing... but you have to get it into just good enough shape so that adding code in the middle doesn't screw up something else (like a table of offsets)... which means you have to go through the whole module and look for stuff like that. If the module is small enough, this can be done fairly quickly, tho. No matter how you patch it, the way to distribute the patches (if patching something that's commercial, that is) is to use Bob Santy's MakPatch/IPatch programs (see PATCH.AR in Lib 12). They generate what we call "ipatch" files (".ipc") so that anyone with the original code can insert/delete new code. best - kev #: 8124 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Nov-90 18:26:00 Sb: #Tape on a Force CPU-30 Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Any Force People I recently bought a Force CPU-30 system with OS-9/68K (v2.3). This system has a SCSI controller on the CPU board and the system came with a device driver for an Archive Viper (2150) QIC-150 SCSI tape drive. I purchased elswere a used Archive Scorpion (QIC-24) tape drive and a Adaptec ACB-3530 SCSI to QIC-36 controller. I've connected the Scorpion/Adaptec unit to the SCSI bus and loaded the driver and descriptor for the Viper and tried to use the tape. It does not seem to work. Nothing happens, except the system hangs. I have set the SCSI address on the SCB-3530 to 4, to match the address in the descriptor. Is there some reason the Viper driver won't work with a different SCSI tape drive? The system came with sources for the driver, so I can edit and re-build the driver if needed. I am not sure what I would need to change though. Also: does anyone have a program (for the Force CPU-30) that will scan down the SCSI bus doing an Inquiry command and reporting what is found on the bus? Just to be sure that the address is set to what it should be and to see if the controller board is alive and well (or at least talking to the bus). Robert Heller There are 2 Replies. #: 8125 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Nov-90 19:42:21 Sb: #8124-Tape on a Force CPU-30 Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Robert - I don't know anything about Force systems, but your idea of a SCSI bus inquiry util sounds neat... I hope someone picks up on it. #: 8135 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Nov-90 10:44:28 Sb: #8124-#Tape on a Force CPU-30 Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Robert, Although SCSI sounds like a standard, the command sets supported by different devices are different. Most likely, the Viper driver sends out a command that the controller from Adaptec does not support. I would have honestly been surprised if it *DID* work, they're so different. I'm assuming that you have MW's stock driver (sbviper) that uses the module to avoid collisions on the SCSI bus. If so, just get the docs for the Adaptec and change their driver to work with it. Sorry to not be more help. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 8145 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Nov-90 14:27:08 Sb: #8135-#Tape on a Force CPU-30 Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Mark: I have the docs for the Adaptec controller and I compared it to what I believe the sbviper driver is doing and it looked like it should work... Since I have the sources, I guess I'll just copy the whole beast over and go through it with the Adaptec docs and make sure the driver and the controller are on the same wavelength... The only other posiblity is either the board is bad or I don't have the address set correctly. Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 8146 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Nov-90 16:29:51 Sb: #8145-#Tape on a Force CPU-30 Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Robert, I know this sounds dumb, but you need to be careful about SCSI termination. Most SCSI devices are very picky about the voltage levels which are affected by termination. Make sure you are terminated in two and only two places - preferably on the ends of your SCSI cable. I must confess that this has screwed me up (along with a blown "pico-fuse") numerous times when trying to hook up different SCSI devices. FWIW, I have Motorola MVME147, OMTI 5400, Archive Viper, and Micropolis Imbedded SCSI devices. Also, make sure you only have one device (and at least one ) providing power to the SCSI bus. If you have none, there's your problem. If you have two, I think you risk blowing something. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 8262 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Nov-90 01:13:41 Sb: #8146-#Tape on a Force CPU-30 Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Mark: With the tape drive connected, the hard disk continues to work. I'm assuming that means that the SCSI bus itself is ok. I do have a termination connecter at the end of the cable. When I do a hard system reset (and when I power up the system), the tape drive does an initialization (makes little noises and its light comes on briefly). I'm assuming that the SCSI controller on the CPU board is sending a general initialization command to everything on the SCSI bus. Robert There are 2 Replies. #: 8263 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Nov-90 01:15:38 Sb: #8262-Tape on a Force CPU-30 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Robert - If it's anything like the Wangtek drives (60/125/150) that I use, the liht flashing and noise making is all perfectly normal. Pete #: 8329 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Nov-90 09:30:31 Sb: #8262-Tape on a Force CPU-30 Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Robert, Yup - if ANY devices on the SCSI bus work properly, you probably have it hooked up right. FWIW, the tape drive does its little song-and-dance even if no SCSI cable is hooked up to it when you power it up. Maybe the next step is to run through it with sysdbg and see how far you do get. Remember, putting breakpoints in drivers (and especially interrupt routines) will bring your system down. But then, that's what reset buttons are for! You may have to power down to reset the SCSI device. If you can re-assemble sbviper and place global symbols (end in ":") at strategic points, it will make debugging a lot easier. Lots of luck! Mark #: 8129 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 11-Nov-90 22:50:33 Sb: #Reading 68000 disks Fm: Greg Law 72130,23 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, I am at wits end trying to convert a "Universal format" disk. According to the information given to me by Stephen Weller at Windsor Systems, the Universal format disks for OS-9/68000 (3.5 inch) use 16 sectors per track with a sector and track offset of one. Well, I've written this program that runs on the PC-clone that reads CoCo format disks beautifully so I altered the source code to change the track offset to one and 16 sector tracks. It reads the ID Sector (LSN 0), the file descriptor for the root directory, and the root directory entries just fine. But when I select CMDS from the root directory, I get a bizarre looking file descriptor for the CMDS directory. The first few entries look just fine, but when it gets to the created date it's set at 4/3/50 or something similar. Examining it closer, it appears there is one byte extra in the file descriptor from somewhere. Yet, the segment list looks fine and it jives with the filesize. In other words, CMDS/basic is supposed to start at LSN 8 and occupies 216 sectors. The file size is 55,xxx bytes and seems to jive with 216 sectors. I figured if the segment list looks okay, Microware must have stuffed some funny values for the creation date and the User ID is 256 (1.0?). When I look at the sector data at LSN 8 (CMDS/basic), the first four values are $00,00,00,00 - I thought the header should be $4A,FC,xx,xx. I took a peek at CMDS/runb and it's the same way. Is this normal for OS-9/68000 executable files? I've diddled the LSN values up and down and haven't spotted anything yet - but LSN 9 has the string "Trap not installed" which seems to allude to the fact that this must be CMDS/basic. It's a real bummer examining all of this stuff at home on a PC with the 68000 system sitting on my desk at work so I don't have the ability to run it through an ident or compare it against a known good executable file. -- Greg There are 2 Replies. #: 8131 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Nov-90 06:16:11 Sb: #8129-#Reading 68000 disks Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Greg Law 72130,23 (X) Greg: Did you check the sector interleave factor? It could be that you have adjacent sectors swapped or something. What is the sector interleave factor for a "normal" CoCo disk? I'd have to fire up my Force system to check. Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 8154 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Nov-90 19:40:36 Sb: #8131-#Reading 68000 disks Fm: Greg Law 72130,23 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Robert, I am using a method that doesn't require me to fiddle with the interleave factor on the disk. I just tell the NEC PD765 floppy controller chip to read Track 1 Sector 8 and it finds it for me. I did finally get the rascal working last night. I don't know what the problem was, but the first few bytes in CMDS/basic were always wrong while running in the C source debugger. I finally exited the debugger and tried it ala-carte and it worked. That made me a little suspicious so I started investigating the source a little closer and found one of the pointers was getting stomped on causing the first four bytes of my data buffer to get overwritten. Very strange problem and the funny thing is that the debugger was telling me what was happening all along - in an obvious way no less - and I ignored it. ;) I knew I was running into memory allocation problems - at least I was always allocating new buffers without returning the old memory - but I was in such a blasted hurry to get the program running so I could copy the files off at disk. I'll have to clean up the code tonight to make it nice and tight. I just wonder what format disk I'll receive next week. ;) -- Greg There are 2 Replies. #: 8158 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Nov-90 20:27:59 Sb: #8154-Reading 68000 disks Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Greg Law 72130,23 (X) Glad to hear you got it going! #: 8264 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Nov-90 01:21:01 Sb: #8154-Reading 68000 disks Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Greg Law 72130,23 (X) Greg: I know how those stray pointers/indexes can really screw you up in interesting and bizzare ways. I wrote this program to run on our DECStations and the program had a bogus array index problem. The wierdness was this: when the program was compiled and run on a Sun4, it appeared to work ok. It also worked on the DECStations, when I was writing to a NFS mounted VMS disk, but trashed the output file when writing to either a local DECStation disk or a NFS mounted DECStation disk (differently trashed). The problem was my bogus index was walking on the buffer allocated and used by fwrite() and a different amount of buffering was being used for different logical output devices and I was randomly lucking out on the Sun and when writing to the VMS disk. Robert #: 8132 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Nov-90 06:31:01 Sb: #8129-#Reading 68000 disks Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Greg Law 72130,23 (X) Here is a universal floppy format descriptor I have on my Force CPU-30: (you might want to make sure that your program on your PC is using this sort of setup.) descriptor name : u0 file manager name : RBF device driver name : rb1772 port address : $ff803800 irq vector : 113 irq level : 6 irq priority : 2 device mode capabilities : $a7 device class : $01 drive number : 2 step rate : 0 device type : $20 track 0 DD (PD_TYP) density : $03 DD, 96TPI (PD_DNS) reserved : $00 number of cylinders : 79 PD_CYL number of heads/sides : 2 PD_SID disk write verification : 0 default sectors/track : 16 PD_SCT default sectors/track 0 : 16 PD_TOS segment allocation size : 8 sector interleave factor : 2 PD_ILV (sector interleave) dma transfer mode : 0 track base offset : 1 PD_TOffs sector base offset : 1 PD_SOffs sector size : 256 PD_SSize control word : $0000 number of tries (1=no retry) : 7 scsi unit number of drive : 0 write precompensation cylinder : 0 reduced write current cylinder : 0 cylinder to park disk head : 0 logical sector offset : 0 total cylinders on device : 80 PD_TotCyls scsi controller id : $00 scsi options flags : $00000000 Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 8155 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 12-Nov-90 20:00:26 Sb: #8132-#Reading 68000 disks Fm: Dan Robins 73007,2473 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Robert, You may want to try posting that message again and use the command: POST UNF The UNF stands for UNFormatted....which tells CIS not to play around with formatting your message. This one didn't look like you probably intended it to. Dan There is 1 Reply. #: 8265 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Nov-90 01:22:53 Sb: #8155-#Reading 68000 disks Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: Dan Robins 73007,2473 (X) Dan: I'm not real familur with CIS - have not used it much. The POST UNF command is definately one to keep in mind! Thanks for the info. Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 8266 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Nov-90 05:45:13 Sb: #8265-Reading 68000 disks Fm: Dan Robins 73007,2473 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Robert, Just yak at us if we can be of assistance in the future. Dan #: 8183 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Nov-90 15:31:19 Sb: #TrapV Error Info? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: All Hi! Anyone working with OSK know what would cause a C program using no trap Libraries, and tons of floating point calculations, to give a 'TRAPV' error #000.107 (E$TrapV) ? I can't even really figure out what this obscure error is. The manual just states "TRAPV - TrapV instruction exception occurred." But what does that mean? I've been trying to find more info in the manual for days! Mike There are 2 Replies. #: 8184 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Nov-90 15:45:47 Sb: #8183-#TrapV Error Info? Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike - This is just a stab, but could E$TRAPV be an arithmetic overflow? I know that the Math errors were defined separately in one other version (6809 C).. The 'v' bit in most uProcessors is the overflow bit.. Also - missed you this year.. didn't go to COMDEX. Marsha has Vegas fever pretty bad though, and we may come out soon anyhoo. Mebbe Feb 91 (or sooner).. Ready to make another pass at the Comedy Store? We had _such_ a ball that night. Say.. weren't you supposed to come to CA next?? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 8194 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Nov-90 02:07:43 Sb: #8184-#TrapV Error Info? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Sounds like that just might be the problem. (Overflow Error) But I have absolutly no idea how to trace the sucker down!!! The binary is 121k and that's not gonna be very pretty to try to find. Thanks. You might be interested in the program. It's a full-featured raytracer, the first one I know of under OSK, called DKBTrace. It's also running on the Amiga, PC's and UNIX sytems. Yeah, I was just saying the other day, "Wonder what happened to Pete?" RE: COMDEX. Well, let me know when your coming and I'll do my best to get you set up at the Dust. You know we're opening a new tower, 1500 rooms. And you and Marsha will get to meet my new wife, Kim. BTW - If you come out in late February you might get to meet my baby too! 8-) I did make it to Cali a few times, just didn't make it up to your area, my fiance, (And now wife), is from the Huntington Beach area. Did you ever get and OSK box? I've got some interesting stuff going and need a couple more beta testers. Mike There is 1 Reply. #: 8197 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Nov-90 09:08:02 Sb: #8194-TrapV Error Info? Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Mike, NEW WIFE??? Yow! Baby too? Gawd... you're a fast worker! Marsha and I may finally be pulling it together early next year (don't want to rush things .. only been together 6-7 years ;^})... No babies here though ... the youngest (17 now) will be shipping out to live in Chicago for a bit, and we'll have the house to ourselves for a change. I just told Marsha and she's thrilled.. now we have multiple reasons to go to Lost Wages. Re: OSK - not yet. Still waiting on a developer's box from Mark/Paul. Frankly, I've stopped holding my breath, and am starting to invest some of my developmental energy into PC-based MIDI tools. Pete #: 8186 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Nov-90 17:18:12 Sb: #8183-#TrapV Error Info? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) You might have divided by zero or overflowed. There is 1 Reply. #: 8195 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Nov-90 02:08:24 Sb: #8186-#TrapV Error Info? Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Thanks JJ, The error only happens on one data file for the raytracer, maybe the data file got munged, I sure hope so anyway. BTW-Do you know why we don't have a fmod() function in the stock math lib? Fmod(double x, double y) returns the modulus of to floats/doubles. Also, what's your opinion on using the cio and math trap libraries? Is it considered better to compile for the traplibs or to not use them. Which executes faster? Any ideas? Mike There is 1 Reply. #: 8204 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Nov-90 18:38:21 Sb: #8195-TrapV Error Info? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X) Going via the trap libraries has an associated performance hit, but does have the advantage of inheriting any improvements in the functions used without recompiling. #: 8208 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Nov-90 22:43:49 Sb: #TRAPV exception error Fm: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 To: 72300,1433 (X) mike, OSK errors 1XX are generated by an unused vector #XX. Exception Vector #7 is defined as TRAPV. TRAPV is the instruction for "Trap on Overflow". Therefore : 1) An Overflow condition is causing the exception and this condition was anticipated by the C generated code(hence the TRAPV instruction). 2) The lack of an exception handling routine causes the error. If you understand the code or what to do on an overflow, you could install your own handler, if not, you could simply try installing an RTI into vector #7. There may even be a handler routine in one of the C-libs or CIO? If you wish to determine where the exception is coming from, you could install a routine into vector #7 to read the stacked address and display it. Hope this helps. Also if what you need beta tested could run on Atari ST/OSK I would be glad to help. Bill Healton 73367,357d There is 1 Reply. #: 8268 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Nov-90 07:41:34 Sb: #8208-TRAPV exception error Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 (X) Thanks for the info, Bill. That sure clears up what the error is, for sure. You might just be correct about the math trap lib having it's own exception handler. I'll try using the math lib and see. (Compile with a -x option). I'm doing tons of floating point calculations and the program sometimes takes "DAYS" to complete a complex trace!!! So, I should try my best to find the buglet. Unfortunatly, I don't know enough assembler to modify vector #7 or to even install a handler. But hopefully the math module will have the needed routine 'built in'. Mike #: 8213 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-90 06:28:08 Sb: #7914-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) David, which version of Red Ryder are you using? 10.3 has bugs in Kermit & Ymodem. There is 1 Reply. #: 8234 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-90 09:54:48 Sb: #8213-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267 (X) Actually, I think I was using RedRyder 9.3 or something like that. I never upgraded to the comercial version. There is 1 Reply. #: 8290 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Nov-90 11:27:49 Sb: #8234-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) I believe the bugs were in all versions until White Knight. They may *still*. There is 1 Reply. #: 8334 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Nov-90 10:55:38 Sb: #8290-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267 (X) Hmmm... Maybe it's the Mac end of the connect that's messing up the kermit transfers then. I'll try using my MS-DOS machine under PROCOMM. I think it has a reliable kermit implementation. Thanks. #: 8214 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-90 06:37:47 Sb: #7884-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Before I gave up on the ST, I spent many hours troubleshooting the serial port. It uses a MF chip. 68901 if memory serves. The chip includes all of the interval timers and interupt decoding. The chip has several caveats for use. For example, you can't change it's config if there is data in the read buffer. The driver in the ST ROM apparently breaks some of these rules. We Atari developers reported the problem to Atari many times. They never fixed it. TOS comm programs get around it by using low level calls... they take over the chip. This is not kosher for OSK, and in a MT/MU OS you wouldn't want to diddle with the guts of CPU timing and interrupt processing just to reconfigure a serial port. There is 1 Reply. #: 8235 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Nov-90 09:56:50 Sb: #8214-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267 (X) I would think that it would be alright for the OSK serial driver to take over the chip, wouldn't it? There is 1 Reply. #: 8292 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Nov-90 11:31:04 Sb: #8235-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) The serial driver should not take over the chip. It whould be a conflict with the kernel. Too many things go through the chip, like the keyboard interrupt. The 68901 also controls all of the timing in the computer. What the ST needs is a serial port that is not tied to the guts of the system. There is 1 Reply. #: 8343 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Nov-90 20:04:44 Sb: #8292-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 To: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267 Bill, I beg to differ. One of the features of the 68901 is the ability to program the individual sections/functions independent of the others. True some of the timers are critical to video timing; but the serial portion with its individual interrupts and registers could and should be handled by the OSK device driver. The current driver does this by using TOS ROM calls; there-in lies its deficiency. A properly written driver should never touch the TOS ROM calls or any of the critical functions of the chip. I am currently working on a keyboard/multiple screen driver that will be independent of the ROMs. It WILL use some of the 68901, including one of the timers. The ke point is one must understand the whole of the system to break out the parts. After I have finished I hope to get to the STSIO driver. I have not yet run across the caveats you mention, but would appreciate any information you have. There is 1 Reply. #: 8347 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Nov-90 08:59:01 Sb: #8343-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 (X) If I wanted to tackle the job of writing my own serial driver for the ST, how would I got about doing it? Is there a reference for writing OSK device drivers? I've done RSX-11 device drivers, but never OSK drivers. I can't imagine that it would be much different though. There is 1 Reply. #: 8371 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Nov-90 23:17:02 Sb: #8347-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: Robert Heller 71450,3432 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) David: The OS-9 Tech. ref manual is pretty good. There is also a book published by Microware by Peter Dibble called "OS-9 Insights An Advanced Programmer Guide to OS-9/68000", which describes an OSK serial port driver (for the 68681) in a step-by-step way. It is not really very hard to write an OSK device driver. The only problem with the ST is I don't think the full ROM debugger is included. While you could get SysDbg, it would be an added cost, but maybe worth it. Robert There is 1 Reply. #: 8373 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Nov-90 11:22:35 Sb: #8371-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Robert Heller 71450,3432 (X) Thanks! I'll check with Peter Dibble about getting a copy of his book. #: 8379 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Nov-90 21:20:41 Sb: GUI Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 To: Kevin Darling Kevin, Something to think about for the GUI is moving around directory trees. With GShell, it's a royal pain (even with a hard disk) to move around the directory tree. It would be nice to have a quick way of doing so. Perhaps by displaying a tree off to the side and allowing the user to click on a directory name? Hugo #: 8387 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 23-Nov-90 21:05:00 Sb: #8347-#Atari-ST file transfer Fm: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) David, OS9 Insights is a must with some docs for the 68901. Also the Abaqus book on Atari ST internals is very useful. Uniquenesses of the ST /OSK include the location and activation of exceptions. OSK sets up its own exception vector table. It has the entry form of: PEA #Exception Address (Exception Number * 4) JMP Longword Vector Address Each entry is (10) ten bytes long. The table starts with vector #2 Addr=$0008 The table is located starting @ -$1000(A6) (A6 is Global set by OSK). In order for OSK to handle the exception, th driver must calculate the entry address for the exception (#-2)*10+(-$1000(A6)) and place it at the vector address in low RAM (#*4). The "OS9 F$IRQ" call (doc'd in Tech manual) will set the Longword Vector Address. Another useful Manual would be the new OSK Technial I/O Manual. Particulars of the 68901 are included in the ST internals book or motorola doc's. Timer D is used to set the Baud Rate(no Timer D IRQ). Otherwise the RS232 portion should be the only portion touched (by anding and or-ing where necessary). Good luck and let me know if you decide to try it and need more info. Bill Healton 73367,357 There is 1 Reply. #: 8423 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Nov-90 09:11:05 Sb: #8387-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 Thanks! I've got the ST internals manual around somewhere. It could be fun to write a device driver again. I'll let you know what I come up with. #: 8391 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Nov-90 05:23:18 Sb: #8343-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267 To: BILL HEALTON 73367,357 (X) Just do what I did, ask the folks that made the thing. You are not differing with me, you are differing with Motorola. Get their booklet on the chip (not the 'sheet"), and you will find the reference to the RX char buffer flush. #: 8392 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Nov-90 05:24:59 Sb: #8373-Atari-ST file transfer Fm: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) You may also want to become a registered Atari developer. Good Luck. #: 8425 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Nov-90 15:38:38 Sb: #Egg on my face Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: all Well, I feel like a complete dolt! It seems that my problems with using kermit to transfer files to OS-9/68K on my ST were due to the bad implementation of kermit on the Macintosh that I was using as the source machine. I've switched to using a PC with PROCOMM and have successfully transfered *lots* of files. Sorry for troubling you all with problem reports that ended up having nothing to do with OS-9. Now, I'm off to the job of porting my programs to OS-9. Thanks, everyone, for your help! David Betz There is 1 Reply. #: 8426 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Nov-90 15:48:32 Sb: #8425-Egg on my face Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Dave - No "egg" involved! Not your mistake, obviously. Thanks for the feedback... we're glad to hear that you're able to transfer stuff now! And also glad that you kept on trying to do so. Good job! - kev #: 8432 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 26-Nov-90 18:39:07 Sb: #Quick trig functions Fm: Steve Adams 71610,3707 To: 72300,1433 (X) Mike, I uploaded the source to the table driven trig functions to the file 'qsin.c' in the OS9/68000 library. It ought to speed up your ray tracing a bit. Steve A. There is 1 Reply. #: 8438 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 27-Nov-90 06:13:56 Sb: #8432-Quick trig functions Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Steve Adams 71610,3707 (X) Thanks much! I snatch it up as soon as it's available. Glad to so you hanging out in the forum! Mike H.